Should He Be Sacked Before The End Of The Season?

[woody]

I remember driving to the Pirelli one afternoon (maybe the afternoon Dino was sacked). Paul Warne was on the radio talking about bad runs and the tremendous effort needed to win games. He was saying that players will respond to a manager as long as the results are forthcoming but when they are not it becomes increasingly difficult for players to take seriously what the manager is asking of them. They see little point in putting themselves on the line. I fear that we are at that point again. Also surprised to see many stewards at the end of the game standing along the touchline, as if the crowd were going to enter the pitch. I know there has been some anger, especially since the Vale game, but I sense resignation to our fate from the fans more than aggression. At least my League Two 2009-2010 scarf will soon be back in fashion. Wish I could drum up more enthusiasm, I really do.

[melymoss]

Apr 6, 2024 21:13:43 GMT woody said:

I remember driving to the Pirelli one afternoon (maybe the afternoon Dino was sacked). Paul Warne was on the radio talking about bad runs and the tremendous effort needed to win games. He was saying that players will respond to a manager as long as the results are forthcoming but when they are not it becomes increasingly difficult for players to take seriously what the manager is asking of them. They see little point in putting themselves on the line. I fear that we are at that point again. Also surprised to see many stewards at the end of the game standing along the touchline, as if the crowd were going to enter the pitch. I know there has been some anger, especially since the Vale game, but I sense resignation to our fate from the fans more than aggression. At least my League Two 2009-2010 scarf will soon be back in fashion. Wish I could drum up more enthusiasm, I really do.

I feel I’m on a lonely crusade to try and protect our manager but honestly that isn’t the case. What woody has written here could be true if we were a good side before MP got the job. The truth however is we have been a poor side all season struggling around the bottom end of the league one table. The last two managers have been backed by Ben brought in their own players and eventually got sacked. The thing that I don’t agree with a lot on here is how good we really are. As I said all season we’ve obviously spent the budget on poor players that have left us towards the bottom end of the league table . That is a fact , we’ve struggled all season. Ben has made the decision to slash the wage budget so whoever came in as manager was taking over a poor side that was made even poorer with no money to go and get better players than the poor players we’d lost. Again this is my own opinion but the facts are there in the first half of the season we are not anywhere near as good as some people think we are. I’m reserving judgement on MP until Ben gives him any kind of backing ( which may never happen)

[britty]

Apr 6, 2024 21:45:27 GMT melymoss said:

Apr 6, 2024 21:13:43 GMT woody said:

I remember driving to the Pirelli one afternoon (maybe the afternoon Dino was sacked). Paul Warne was on the radio talking about bad runs and the tremendous effort needed to win games. He was saying that players will respond to a manager as long as the results are forthcoming but when they are not it becomes increasingly difficult for players to take seriously what the manager is asking of them. They see little point in putting themselves on the line. I fear that we are at that point again. Also surprised to see many stewards at the end of the game standing along the touchline, as if the crowd were going to enter the pitch. I know there has been some anger, especially since the Vale game, but I sense resignation to our fate from the fans more than aggression. At least my League Two 2009-2010 scarf will soon be back in fashion. Wish I could drum up more enthusiasm, I really do.

I feel I’m on a lonely crusade to try and protect our manager but honestly that isn’t the case. What woody has written here could be true if we were a good side before MP got the job. The truth however is we have been a poor side all season struggling around the bottom end of the league one table. The last two managers have been backed by Ben brought in their own players and eventually got sacked. The thing that I don’t agree with a lot on here is how good we really are. As I said all season we’ve obviously spent the budget on poor players that have left us towards the bottom end of the league table . That is a fact , we’ve struggled all season. Ben has made the decision to slash the wage budget so whoever came in as manager was taking over a poor side that was made even poorer with no money to go and get better players than the poor players we’d lost. Again this is my own opinion but the facts are there in the first half of the season we are not anywhere near as good as some people think we are. I’m reserving judgement on MP until Ben gives him any kind of backing ( which may never happen)

I am not sure there is any evidence to suggest Ben has slashed the wage budget. He has been very consistent year on year of giving a budget to the manager which aligns to the operating turnover of the club. And actually when you look at our squad, it is the biggest jn terms of numbers for a long time. For many years we operated with a small squad, more quality over quantity perhaps. As well as a full bench yesterday, we had: Seddon, Caprice, Nsiala, Bennett, Hudlin and Hackford missing. Another full bench of outfield players.

[Ilson Brewer]

Far too many players, most of which are nowhere near League 1 standard. All being paid far too much for very little reward.

[britty]

Apr 7, 2024 7:21:45 GMT Ilson Brewer said:

Far too many players, most of which are nowhere near League 1 standard. All being paid far too much for very little reward.

It also promotes the constant tinkering of starting 11 and formations which helps no one at this level.

[sinfinbovril]

Playing devil's advocate this Monday morning: it looks like he's staying for the rest of the season, doesn't it?

[mikeyboy]

Apr 8, 2024 6:53:28 GMT sinfinbovril said:

Playing devil's advocate this Monday morning: it looks like he's staying for the rest of the season, doesn't it?

I thought about that over the weekend. If Ben wanted to think it through and not act on impulse like he did with Dino, then maybe it might be this morning. Particularly if a few calls have come in yesterday.

[bennyboy]

Was it Jimmy who got pulled on a Monday morning after a Saturday game?

[bartonyellow]

“Hi Neil it’s Ben..fancy finishing off your career at somewhere you started? 4 games. Win bonus if you stay up”

[Fred Andrews]

If there's no announcement this morning after that horror show then he's untouchable until the end of his deal.

[mikeyboy]

Apr 6, 2024 21:13:43 GMT woody said:

I remember driving to the Pirelli one afternoon (maybe the afternoon Dino was sacked). Paul Warne was on the radio talking about bad runs and the tremendous effort needed to win games. He was saying that players will respond to a manager as long as the results are forthcoming but when they are not it becomes increasingly difficult for players to take seriously what the manager is asking of them. They see little point in putting themselves on the line. I fear that we are at that point again. Also surprised to see many stewards at the end of the game standing along the touchline, as if the crowd were going to enter the pitch. I know there has been some anger, especially since the Vale game, but I sense resignation to our fate from the fans more than aggression. At least my League Two 2009-2010 scarf will soon be back in fashion. Wish I could drum up more enthusiasm, I really do.

I’d say that’s exactly where we are at currently Woody.

[woody]

It is such a concerning situation. We will be starting to rebuild virtually from scratch whatever league we are in next year. I have no confidence that we have the personnel in place to do that. Football management is an insanely difficult job. Being a good blagger gets plaudits in many work places but gets terribly exposed in the football industry.

[keggy]

Disappointing morning. Any other club in the football league would have acted by now

[benegoat]

Apr 8, 2024 8:56:51 GMT Fred Andrews said:

If there's no announcement this morning after that horror show then he's untouchable until the end of his deal.

I agree. If you work from the position that under MP we are in League Two next season and you've got to pay him anyway then why not put him on gardening leave and ask the Barker/Gilroy combination to have a go with Mills assisting. Nothing to loose except more points.

MP has upset the supporters and does not seem to have the same view as the players so regardless of the outcome he doesn't appear to have a way back next season. Early promise turned into the same tactical naivety as the previous offering. 

Unless of course Warnock fancies his biggest challenge yet.

[DC]

I can't see any reason to persevere with Paterson for the last four games seeing as he's out of contract in the summer anyway. We look 100% doomed if he stays so why not give anyone else either already within the club or someone on the outside who might do us a favour the slight chance to try and keep us up.

[Fred Andrews]

I agree with the above posts. Keeping MP in charge now is an admittance of defeat. Vale & Cheltenham will be rubbing their hands.

[sinfinbovril]

Maybe I'm overreacting....but might he be in charge next season, too?

If Ben is 'happy' (he's not UNhappy, obviously) with how things are going, he might be. As some people on here have suggested, Paterson's inherited this squad - maybe he'll be allowed a summer of buying his own players. Dave Fletcher & Aaron were discussing this on the radio, though it might have been after the Barnsley game.

[bartonyellow]

Apr 8, 2024 12:01:52 GMT sinfinbovril said:

Maybe I'm overreacting....but might he be in charge next season, too?

If Ben is 'happy' (he's not UNhappy, obviously) with how things are going, he might be. As some people on here have suggested, Paterson's inherited this squad - maybe he'll be allowed a summer of buying his own players. Dave Fletcher & Aaron were discussing this on the radio, though it might have been after the Barnsley game.

I sincerely hope that is not the case.

[Fred Andrews]

That's a worrying thought Sinfin, don't say things like that!

We can all agree MP hasn't inherited a great squad, but he's managed to get the worst out of them.

He's been very similar to Buxton, a deer in the headlights & completely out of his depth. Making horrific tactical mistakes more than anything, that have cost us points & resulted in some of the worst performances seen on the pitch in decades.

To be given another opportunity he would have had to show something, a spark, a bit of managerial flair, but as yet we've not seen anything. Just confusion, delusion and an unwilling to learn from mistakes. Five at the back isn't working and he flat out refuses to change it.

It's not worked out and we need to move on, he's obviously tried his hardest and lesser men would have walked away, but somethings aren't meant to be.

[annable]

I don't see any future with MP anymore I have to say and even if by some miracle he turned it round in the last 4 games I think the damage is already done. I think every word he says now is jumped upon and in some cases twisted and he can't do right for doing wrong now regardless. I listened to his interview after the game(and have just listened again before typing this) and in actual fact he didn't criticise the fans he just said the atmosphere isn't great given the nature of the first goal and also recent results. That is an absolute fact and I don't think he has said anything insulting, not as far as i'm concerned, just telling it how it is. That said it's been jumped on as a criticism of the fans when really it wasn't it was just stating facts.

It's worrying when he says that some players don't seem to realise that we are in a relegation battle which is remarkable. They are either thick or not bothered. I think some are looking towards the end of the season and their own futures so aren't bothered either way. Player agents will be kicking into action trying to get the out of contract players fixed up with better deals so they can get their fees no doubt.

The chairman has been brilliant for this club over many years and has backed all managers but you have to say that he hasn't had many difficult decisions to make over managers until the last few years i.e. Bucko onwards, where it's been plain sailing with relative low expectations and the managers from Clough(both spells) and those in between have been very successful in the main. Even Pesch was decent until the second half of season three. I think that he is well outside of his comfort zone now and a bit out of his depth with knowing how to play this. His gut feeling is always to give a young manager a chance and he would hate to have to pull the rug from under MP after so few games but the facts are that these last 10 games have been a disaster and he has taken us from a position of relative comfort to one of being on the brink with some really crap team about to overtake us. That's unacceptable albeit with some mitigating reasons i.e. January transfer fiasco.

I think the other thing with MP is that he doesn't appear to have tried to implement any new ideas and we are playing almost exactly the same as we did under Dino but much worse and without the players to do it. Our only attacking option is playing for long throws and we're not particularly good at that anymore(if we ever were) and having started conceding goals from these positions or "transition" as it's known in modern day football. If somebody had told you when MP was appointed that before the season ended the boys behind the goal would chant Dino's name(Ok, might have been sarcastically) then you wouldn't have believed it.

I actually like the idea of replacing MP with John Coleman as I think he would be a perfect fit for us and if we end up going down I would back him to get us a least a top half finish next season as he knows the lower leagues and also, as important, would get us playing a better brand of football.

Lots for Ben to think about but it looks like he's sitting tight until the end of the season.