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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2019 0:32:29 GMT
The manager is in the market for a new centre back. He feels the ones we have are holding us back and need replacing but who? These are the stats for the current players for this season Jake. Ben. Kyle. John B league apps 20 league apps 19. League apps 19 league apps 24 clean sheets 4. clean sheets 6 Clean sheets. 4 Clean sheets 4 matches won 7 Matches won 8 matches won 6 matches won 6 NC has indicated that this is where our problems lie? NC said during his criticism of the defence after Saturdays game that Jake and kept more clean sheets than any of the others...he hasnt The club have won 10 of 27 league games. Both Jakes and Bens win ratio are close to or better than that ratio. Liam Boyce has scored 7 goals in 21 league apps thats a ratio of 1 in 3 games which is not really any better than Bens clean sheet record of 6 in 19 games Bens win ratio of 8 in 19 or 42% is better than the actual teams of 10 in 27 or 37% so who is letting the side down?
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Post by insideleft on Jan 16, 2019 10:05:37 GMT
Nobody.
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Post by swaddy Dave on Jan 16, 2019 10:29:03 GMT
My preferred choice would be Ben and kyle, if fit!
But in answer to the thread title, Who should play centre back?? Whoever the management asks to play there.
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Post by NobodyGood on Jan 16, 2019 11:00:27 GMT
I wouldn't do well Inside... But glad you've put my name into the hat. Will see if Clough calls me up.
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Post by bennyboy on Jan 16, 2019 11:33:21 GMT
"so who is letting the side down?"
No one, the defence has been chopped and changed for one reason or another, injuries have been the main factor. Remember we had Lucas in centre defence at one point. When injuries haven't dictated who's up for selection I guess NC selects who he thinks will do the job given the opposition etc, sometimes that's not worked out as the best decision for the team or got the right result. Overall I would say he's getting it right. Whether discussing who's at fault for their defending or not hitting the target in public is the correct thing to do I'm unsure, some of players have in the past tended to be ok with that and come out said their piece on it.
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Post by trevor1946 on Jan 16, 2019 12:47:06 GMT
Oh don't believe this.Asking who is letting the side down,your that black n white makes worry. Our defence has suffered through injuries.and are more than capable of league 1 . But playing so many games takes its toll,Buxton--Brayford-Turner-even Macfadzene has been out a lot== 2 out of 4 would seem adequate in central defence, But i would assume Clough knows more than us,and feels injuries are taking away our solidarity
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Post by cbh1 on Jan 16, 2019 12:57:11 GMT
The manager is in the market for a new centre back. He feels the ones we have are holding us back and need replacing but who? These are the stats for the current players for this season Jake. Ben. Kyle. John B league apps 20 league apps 19. League apps 19 league apps 24 clean sheets 4. clean sheets 6 Clean sheets. 4 Clean sheets 4 matches won 7 Matches won 8 matches won 6 matches won 6 NC has indicated that this is where our problems lie? NC said during his criticism of the defence after Saturdays game that Jake and kept more clean sheets than any of the others...he hasnt The club have won 10 of 27 league games. Both Jakes and Bens win ratio are close to or better than that ratio. Liam Boyce has scored 7 goals in 21 league apps thats a ratio of 1 in 3 games which is not really any better than Bens clean sheet record of 6 in 19 games Bens win ratio of 8 in 19 or 42% is better than the actual teams of 10 in 27 or 37% so who is letting the side down? Royston, you comment on another thread about using incorrect stats but yours above are not entirely accurate. You quote league appearances. They are appearances in all competitions. Jake has played 15 league games not 20. And he has got five clean sheets, not four. Also you need to bear in mind that some of those appearances are when he came on as a substitute and was playing as a defensive midfielder alongside Quinn late on in games so wasn't actually playing as a central defender. Again Boyce also played a number of games as a winger rather than a striker so arguably had fewer chances to score. Stats can tell whatever story you want them to.................doesn't make them right.
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Post by annable on Jan 16, 2019 13:05:30 GMT
Interesting stats from Royston, thanks for that, where it looks to me that the four centre backs are all a much of a muchness with perhaps Ben stats being slightly better than the other three. I always think that sometimes stats can be misleading and what you see with your own eyes is the best way to make a judgement. I have always thought that of the four Kyle has to be one of the two starters as he is slightly more athletic than the other three and also better on the ball(at least he thinks he is!). I once heard somebody behind me say "look at Kyle, he thinks he's Beckenbauer" as he sprayed a pass to somebody half way back on the popside!
In terms of Royston using the phrase "letting the side down" I think before we all slaughter him for use of the phrase I would imagine that this has come directly from Nigel's aftermatch interview on Saturday where he made it abundantly clear that's where he thought the problem was and that's why he was looking to bring somebody in this week. He may not have used those words exactly but it was clear that's what he meant. Whether he was just shooting from the hip a few minutes after the final whistle I don't know but he was certainly as frustrated with it all as the rest of us.
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Post by insideleft on Jan 16, 2019 14:30:37 GMT
I have to say this Royston but you do have a history of supporting your points of view with very flimsy stats. burtonbrewers.proboards.com/post/54895We had this slight disagreement last August 5th'ish when you were out by at least a season and more on stats used to cast your lets say negative views re Jake Buxton. At the weekend you suggested Stephen Warnock played over 20 games last season, I still don't get the point you were making, but he did only start 13 and finished his season with us in the November.I'm not sure you can really blame him for relegation as I think you were? You've presented some stats above and I know full well Jake has barely started any more than 7/8 league games without even checking my programmes so 20 is miles out. So I've little to say other than I have already NOBODY is letting the side down IMO. Everybody in that squad is busting a gut for the team.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2019 14:36:56 GMT
The manager is in the market for a new centre back. He feels the ones we have are holding us back and need replacing but who? These are the stats for the current players for this season Jake. Ben. Kyle. John B league apps 20 league apps 19. League apps 19 league apps 24 clean sheets 4. clean sheets 6 Clean sheets. 4 Clean sheets 4 matches won 7 Matches won 8 matches won 6 matches won 6 NC has indicated that this is where our problems lie? NC said during his criticism of the defence after Saturdays game that Jake and kept more clean sheets than any of the others...he hasnt The club have won 10 of 27 league games. Both Jakes and Bens win ratio are close to or better than that ratio. Liam Boyce has scored 7 goals in 21 league apps thats a ratio of 1 in 3 games which is not really any better than Bens clean sheet record of 6 in 19 games Bens win ratio of 8 in 19 or 42% is better than the actual teams of 10 in 27 or 37% so who is letting the side down? Royston, you comment on another thread about using incorrect stats but yours above are not entirely accurate. You quote league appearances. They are appearances in all competitions. Jake has played 15 league games not 20. And he has got five clean sheets, not four. Also you need to bear in mind that some of those appearances are when he came on as a substitute and was playing as a defensive midfielder alongside Quinn late on in games so wasn't actually playing as a central defender. Again Boyce also played a number of games as a winger rather than a striker so arguably had fewer chances to score. Stats can tell whatever story you want them to.................doesn't make them right. I do accept that the stats do not include cup games and the Checka and that Jake came on in a few games, Bens played left back a time or two and Brays has played all over the place? im sorry if i got a figure wrong for Jake. Are the other stats correct? If so I fail to see how Ben in particular can be singled out by the gaffa on the back of one game last Saturday? We win more games when he plays than when he doesnt?
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Post by NobodyGood on Jan 16, 2019 17:42:37 GMT
Enquired for 3 Centre backs. Expecting one.
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Post by insideleft on Jan 16, 2019 17:58:17 GMT
I have to say Brayf, Ben, Fadz and Bucko(now) have been fantastic for us and are still real assets over 3 great seasons.
The only problem has been injury and I think at the start of the season Nigel recognised that, well we all did.
To say NC is trying to get rid as one or two exaggerated posts by one poster has suggested recently I suspect is far from it. In fact I don’t know where it comes from.
All are playing through and carrying injury no doubt in what has been a hectic program in what I believe thus far has been a successful and enjoyable season.
I think looking ahead to next year and longer term bearing in mind age, injury and contract expiry Nigel will be and should be looking at reshaping a little our defensive options and that perhaps is being looked at now with an eye to the future but don’t let’s write great lads off just because we’ve lost to Gillingham.
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emnez
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Post by emnez on Jan 16, 2019 18:26:14 GMT
I agree three of them have been fantastic Fadz for me still is.Injuries brought on by aging are blatantly taking there toll.NC will certainly reshape things at the back sooner than we think and I look forward to it.
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Post by sinfinbovril on Jan 16, 2019 20:41:59 GMT
I have to say Brayf, Ben, Fadz and Bucko(now) have been fantastic for us and are still real assets over 3 great seasons. The only problem has been injury and I think at the start of the season Nigel recognised that, well we all did. To say NC is trying to get rid as one or two exaggerated posts by one poster has suggested recently I suspect is far from it. In fact I don’t know where it comes from. All are playing through and carrying injury no doubt in what has been a hectic program in what I believe thus far has been a successful and enjoyable season. I think looking ahead to next year and longer term bearing in mind age, injury and contract expiry Nigel will be and should be looking at reshaping a little our defensive options and that perhaps is being looked at now with an eye to the future but don’t let’s write great lads off just because we’ve lost to Gillingham. At this precise moment of the season, and not looking ahead to the summer, I'd be quite happy with any four of them. I think if I saw Bucko & Brayf, I'd say that's maybe the least strong pair but Bucko has been great this season. They all have. Best this season (for me) has been Kyle because he's been bringing the ball out of defence and he seems to be the starting point for the passing game we play. If you'd have asked me the same question a year ago, it'd have been a completely different answer, when I only rated Ben at CB.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2019 11:09:45 GMT
This is the easiest question I’ve ever answered.
Anyone but Buxton. He shouldn’t be at the club and him and bywater are the main reasons we were relagated last season. And also the reason why we are halfway down a weak league one. The way we started this season was a disgrace. Look at the preparation in pre season.
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Post by cbh1 on Jan 17, 2019 12:23:50 GMT
To be fair Royston I didn't have much time yesterday and so once I had spotted that Jake's numbers were wrong I stopped analyzing in any great detail. I think the point I was trying to make is that on another thread you were quite critical of others for using incorrect information or stats to make their point but then went on this thread to try and make your own point when the data on its own was flawed. Even before we start to factor in who has played where in games. Now I didn't hear all of Nigel's post match interview on Saturday as I had to go and get quotes from the Gillingham manager who was doing his post match at the same time but I think, in terms of clean sheets, he may have been referring to recent form. eg since Jake came back into the side away at Middlesbrough in the League Cup QF. If he specifically said about the season as a whole then I stand corrected. I think the debate about who should play at centre back is a valid one. They all have different attributes. Kyle is our best 'ball playing' CB if we want to come out from the back with it. Ben Turner has the height whilst Brayf and Bucko have excellent reading of the game as well. Much also comes down to the opposition too and the way they play up front, eg target man or quick strikers playing on the shoulder. That can influence which combination you go with, assuming everyone is fit.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2019 12:28:40 GMT
I would say that Jake Buxton has been a great asset to this club in both spells here and his performances this season have been at least above average. As for Bywater, well it is clear he is second choice now.
The reasons we got relegated last season are far more complex than the performances of two players. But the main reason is the resources available to a small club with very limited support left us out of our depth in that league. The fact we spent more than one season in the Championship is one of the greatest achievements in football ever and is testament to the players, the management team and the owner of the club.
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Post by NobodyGood on Jan 17, 2019 12:42:00 GMT
We should ask Bielsa what he thinks 😁
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2019 12:54:36 GMT
We should ask Bielsa what he thinks 😁 I had to Google that, such is my level of UNINTREST in other football clubs.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2019 18:36:02 GMT
I have to say Brayf, Ben, Fadz and Bucko(now) have been fantastic for us and are still real assets over 3 great seasons. The only problem has been injury and I think at the start of the season Nigel recognised that, well we all did. To say NC is trying to get rid as one or two exaggerated posts by one poster has suggested recently I suspect is far from it. In fact I don’t know where it comes from. All are playing through and carrying injury no doubt in what has been a hectic program in what I believe thus far has been a successful and enjoyable season. I think looking ahead to next year and longer term bearing in mind age, injury and contract expiry Nigel will be and should be looking at reshaping a little our defensive options and that perhaps is being looked at now with an eye to the future but don’t let’s write great lads off just because we’ve lost to Gillingham. At this precise moment of the season, and not looking ahead to the summer, I'd be quite happy with any four of them. I think if I saw Bucko & Brayf, I'd say that's maybe the least strong pair but Bucko has been great this season. They all have. Best this season (for me) has been Kyle because he's been bringing the ball out of defence and he seems to be the starting point for the passing game we play. If you'd have asked me the same question a year ago, it'd have been a completely different answer, when I only rated Ben at CB. I think Buxton will be paired with Kyle tomorrow if the gaffas criticism of Turner and Brayford following the Gills game is to be followed through. However, the gaffas strange criticisms today on penalties given away suggest Buxton and Kyle are a risky combination whereas I dont think Turner has given a penalty away since hes been here and I dont think Brayford has since returning from Sheff Utd. In summary, theres nothing like a gaffa giving players confidence is there?
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