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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2015 18:03:25 GMT
Why is this worth mentioning? Because several have said appointment of Nigel may be a backwards step. I'm basing where we finish and how Nigel does on the fact I think we are in a slightly false position now and have over achieved so far this season with what we have IMO Well the bookies have us at 6/4 for promotion, those are pretty good odds. But re: your point, there is also no guarantee that we would not have won the league or been promoted with Jimmy. So it's a moot point IMO.
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Post by observer on Dec 10, 2015 18:06:44 GMT
Yes I've read that same article you've quoted from
When he was at Derby he inherited "the worst team in history" and had several years of having to continually slash the wagebill and wheel and deal whilst losing parachute payment so but he managed to keep them in Championship whilst getting them financially strong
That's a job that not many managers can succeed in doing in this day and age
He got their wagebill and everything down to meet FFP whilst Forest were spending 10m more on wages and doing no better on the pitch than Derby
Anyway I rate what he does and the fact he does it without breaking the bank and he doesn't go mardy when he has to sell players etc or demand big money to sign players etc
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Post by mikeyboy on Dec 10, 2015 19:16:13 GMT
A very comprehensive contribution from Booker 4, who is obviously a very passionate Blades (and Nigel Adkins) fan. A lot of good points too, I would however suggest that Nigel Clough would have had to adopt 'a horses for courses' philosophy when appointed at Bramall Lane as the need was to create an impact and drag the players up by their bootlaces, to get an underperforming team moving forward again. Circumstances at the Pirelli being completely different to that probably means we will see a vastly different guy in charge here. I am still quietly confident that long term Nigel Clough is still a great fit and excellent appointment for Burton Albion.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2015 20:07:55 GMT
A very comprehensive contribution from Booker 4, who is obviously a very passionate Blades (and Nigel Adkins) fan. A lot of good points too, I would however suggest that Nigel Clough would have had to adopt 'a horses for courses' philosophy when appointed at Bramall Lane as the need was to create an impact and drag the players up by their bootlaces, to get an underperforming team moving forward again. Circumstances at the Pirelli being completely different to that probably means we will see a vastly different guy in charge here. I am still quietly confident that long term Nigel Clough is still a great fit and excellent appointment for Burton Albion. Bang on there mikeyboy, just how I see it.
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Post by dcpedigree on Dec 11, 2015 0:08:38 GMT
Booker But for sure in 19 months he improved Sheff United from where he took over from This club has improved slowly but steadily for 20 years plus if you look at the history I like this appointment because at this stage if the club just very slowly improved or even just consolidated from now on in then it's still doing great compared to where it's come from and Burton now have something to lose rather than everything to gain I'm new to being a contributor on here and fan of Burton. My son is at the academy and that's why I now follow the club and want them to succeed But I have experience of Nigel going back to when he was a young kid at my club - Forest He's a good guy and a solid appointment for Burton Albion You can class me as a little bit independent by the way As for Sheffield United I don't class your club as a big club myself. On the periphery perhaps. Forest used to be a big club but long time ago now. Abysmally run for years. And worse than ever now. Bigger than Sheffield United but still going nowhere. Burton are twice as well run as both of them. I think you are a strong Championship club when managed well. Forest should be a Premier League club but never will be under current owners. More chance of going down. Whereas being a strong League One club is about the best you would think Burton should be. But it's amazing what a good owner can make happen. And they may even get to Championship one day with a bit of luck. Am I correct when I said there was a poll the week before Nigel went or something like that and majority of Sheffield United fans wanted him to stay? We'll have to disagree on how big United are mate and its not the focus of the debate over Clough. In my view Forest are a big club but mainly because of the European Cup history. Fan base wise, they're the same as us give or take, and we're in the league below. Stoke are definitely a smaller club than us, in every sense, and look what they've achieved in recent seasons. Being in League One doesn't make us a lesser club size wise, although certainly it doesn't help. Dormant maybe?! I don't see how that is particularly relevant though anyway. I can't find the poll Observer, but just enter Nigel Clough in google and Sheffield United fans forums etc and you'll find the same views as min although yes some fans will defend him with arguments like we can't keep sacking managers and he cup runs were great etc. It doesn't matter to me whether I'm in the minority or not over Clough, he was sacked and rightly so in my view. I've heard from someone I know who works with United that Clough is a decent guy. I've no doubt of that, but I just go on what he did football wise and his man management, as I said, was questionable to say the least! You have to be a fan of a club or watch and follow a club's fortunes to be able to know how well Clough did, because just looking at the 5th position and the two semi finals doesn't tell the full story, however harsh that might sound. Whenever a friend of mine, who supported another club went, they'd always say the same thing. "You watch this awful negative football every week"?!! 19,000 do that every week too. Now that is amazing support in my view. Without watching us under Clough every week and seeing the same mistakes reappearing without any improvement it became so frustrating and then the excuses started and criticising players. I'm just repeating myself now Observer and outstaying my welcome, but you'll find in the long post I originally did why I based my view on Clough and where we were when he joined and when he left. As I said we were in a totally false position when Clough took over. He signed John Brayford on loan and that made a big difference, granted, but the original squad was playing well below their potential under Weir. I'll leave you with one quote from a local journalist who said we should have kept Clough, but then admits the following “Clough has had his critics, I can understand that, a club of United’s size should have made a genuine challenge for automatic promotion not barely stumble over the play-off line. “Home performances were far from convincing and although the 5-5 draw with Swindon will go down as classic match the team, actually, was poor for long spells that night and over the two legs didn’t really deserve to go through. “However my honest opinion is given another season Clough would have got us up". He goes on to say 8 managers in recent years is no way to run a club and that who is better to take over?! Well Nigel Adkins for starters and we can all agree sacking 8 managers isn't the way forward, but you look through the list and all the 8 managers have been sacked regularly (minus Speed RIP), even the better ones like Wilson. That's the defence remember, above! Hardly convincing is it and his spell at Derby, although stable, didn't inspire me that Clough knows how to get teams promoted. He would have got us up the following season?!?! On what basis? The many promotions Clough has achieved in his league career?! Good evening and god bless. To me and you it seems your club has made all the wrong decisions over the years and appointed the wrong managers at the wrong time. You are indeed a very big club, as you say 19,000 watching rubbish. Our club on the other hand, has so far (and i don’t see any reason to believe otherwise) in the future made the right decisions for this club. You really wanted the appointment to work for Nigel, unfortunately the wrong appointment at the wrong time. Rather than blame the manager your very large club with 19,000 fans watching rubbish should look at blaming the guy who is constantly employing and firing the wrong person. Come on, you’ve posted enough on here to make me believe you really want to join our fold, don’t kid yourself, we all know your a closet brewer along with the rest of the 18,999 who are yearning to support a well run club. See you in March, in our end with a yellow and black scarf you know you want to.
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Post by swaddy Dave on Dec 11, 2015 7:28:24 GMT
To be truthful I don't care a damn about Sheffield Utd or how big there fans think there club is, at the moment we are above them in the league and if we finish above them in May that will do me nicely . Getting back to the thread title welcome back Nigel, Andy and Gary, if at all possible it would be most agreeable if you could keep this tremendous progress going. COYB
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Post by bennyboy on Dec 11, 2015 15:33:06 GMT
I've got a relative who supports The Blades, his son is an Owls fan.
Something went wrong there I reckon but I always cause an arguement whan I ask why that is.
Anyways as said above COYB
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Post by booker4 on Dec 11, 2015 17:20:23 GMT
Swaddy, I did my best to not go down how big we are route (as I said, we're not Manchester United or even Leeds United - I am a realist) and as I said I don't think it was the basis of my thoughts. There are bigger clubs than us in the Prem and some, like Leeds in the Championship (hate saying that)! I don't wish Burton any ill fortune and I've really appreciated the dialogue because I'm aware I'm a guest coming on your forum and having not given positive feedback on your understandably popular manager, but I've said how I saw it! dcpedigree, you're totally right, he was possibly the right man at the wrong time. I think we can all agree that Nigel is not someone known for instant success and he needs time and patience, as all managers, do to implement his style and tactics. The fact I didn't like them and most Blades didn't (in my understanding) is totally the fault of our board who should have done their homework better, as I said earlier.
I remember when Clough was sacked from Derby I thought our board will go for him but he wasn't my choice, because he hadn't had promotions and appeared to be a "steady pair of hands" etc. I've lost count of the number of times people have said he's a steady pair of hands and he sorted out the wage bill at Derby, under difficult circumstances! From the outside, he appeared to be harshly sacked from Derby, but I'm guessing it was similar reasons to why he got sacked from us, and when you follow it as a fan from the inside, you see things totally different to what you would from the outside and that's not emotions coming into it, it's following it every week. That's just my views. There are thousands of Blades fans who don't like or don't rate our chairman, partly because of his management appointments and question him regularly. Personally, I think he's got his heart in the right place and has pumped millions in, as well as appointing some indifferent managers or inexperienced ones who can always go either way.
I've learned a lot about Burton and your chairman, who sounds quality. Thanks for the debate and I reckon you'll finish in the play offs this season, which would be a great achievement, largely due to Rowett and JFH. ;-). I really like Rowett by the way, I can see him being a really top manager one day. I'll certainly keep any eye on Burton with interest as the season enfolds.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2015 17:24:19 GMT
Swaddy, I did my best to not go down how big we are route (as I said, we're not Manchester United or even Leeds United - I am a realist) and as I said I don't think it was the basis of my thoughts. There are bigger clubs than us in the Prem and some, like Leeds in the Championship (hate saying that)! I don't wish Burton any ill fortune and I've really appreciated the dialogue because I'm aware I'm a guest coming on your forum and having not given positive feedback on your understandably popular manager, but I've said how I saw it! dcpedigree, you're totally right, he was possibly the right man at the wrong time. I think we can all agree that Nigel is not someone known for instant success and he needs time and patience, as all managers, do to implement his style and tactics. The fact I didn't like them and most Blades didn't (in my understanding) is totally the fault of our board who should have done their homework better, as I said earlier. I remember when Clough was sacked from Derby I thought our board will go for him but he wasn't my choice, because he hadn't had promotions and appeared to be a "steady pair of hands" etc. I've lost count of the number of times people have said he's a steady pair of hands and he sorted out the wage bill at Derby, under difficult circumstances! From the outside, he appeared to be harshly sacked from Derby, but I'm guessing it was similar reasons to why he got sacked from us, and when you follow it as a fan from the inside, you see things totally different to what you would from the outside and that's not emotions coming into it, it's following it every week. That's just my views. There are thousands of Blades fans who don't like or don't rate our chairman, partly because of his management appointments and question him regularly. Personally, I think he's got his heart in the right place and has pumped millions in, as well as appointing some indifferent managers or inexperienced ones who can always go either way. I've learned a lot about Burton and your chairman, who sounds quality. Thanks for the debate and I reckon you'll finish in the play offs this season, which would be a great achievement, largely due to Rowett and JFH. ;-). I really like Rowett by the way, I can see him being a really top manager one day. I'll certainly keep any eye on Burton with interest as the season enfolds. Proper football fan our booker 4.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2015 17:40:44 GMT
Swaddy, I did my best to not go down how big we are route (as I said, we're not Manchester United or even Leeds United - I am a realist) and as I said I don't think it was the basis of my thoughts. There are bigger clubs than us in the Prem and some, like Leeds in the Championship (hate saying that)! I don't wish Burton any ill fortune and I've really appreciated the dialogue because I'm aware I'm a guest coming on your forum and having not given positive feedback on your understandably popular manager, but I've said how I saw it! dcpedigree, you're totally right, he was possibly the right man at the wrong time. I think we can all agree that Nigel is not someone known for instant success and he needs time and patience, as all managers, do to implement his style and tactics. The fact I didn't like them and most Blades didn't (in my understanding) is totally the fault of our board who should have done their homework better, as I said earlier. I remember when Clough was sacked from Derby I thought our board will go for him but he wasn't my choice, because he hadn't had promotions and appeared to be a "steady pair of hands" etc. I've lost count of the number of times people have said he's a steady pair of hands and he sorted out the wage bill at Derby, under difficult circumstances! From the outside, he appeared to be harshly sacked from Derby, but I'm guessing it was similar reasons to why he got sacked from us, and when you follow it as a fan from the inside, you see things totally different to what you would from the outside and that's not emotions coming into it, it's following it every week. That's just my views. There are thousands of Blades fans who don't like or don't rate our chairman, partly because of his management appointments and question him regularly. Personally, I think he's got his heart in the right place and has pumped millions in, as well as appointing some indifferent managers or inexperienced ones who can always go either way. I've learned a lot about Burton and your chairman, who sounds quality. Thanks for the debate and I reckon you'll finish in the play offs this season, which would be a great achievement, largely due to Rowett and JFH. ;-). I really like Rowett by the way, I can see him being a really top manager one day. I'll certainly keep any eye on Burton with interest as the season enfolds. Proper football fan our booker 4. That is not possible terrace man, he is a United fan
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2015 17:56:45 GMT
Oh yes funky ! take your point mate !
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2015 19:43:17 GMT
Swaddy, I did my best to not go down how big we are route (as I said, we're not Manchester United or even Leeds United - I am a realist) and as I said I don't think it was the basis of my thoughts. There are bigger clubs than us in the Prem and some, like Leeds in the Championship (hate saying that)! I don't wish Burton any ill fortune and I've really appreciated the dialogue because I'm aware I'm a guest coming on your forum and having not given positive feedback on your understandably popular manager, but I've said how I saw it! dcpedigree, you're totally right, he was possibly the right man at the wrong time. I think we can all agree that Nigel is not someone known for instant success and he needs time and patience, as all managers, do to implement his style and tactics. The fact I didn't like them and most Blades didn't (in my understanding) is totally the fault of our board who should have done their homework better, as I said earlier. I remember when Clough was sacked from Derby I thought our board will go for him but he wasn't my choice, because he hadn't had promotions and appeared to be a "steady pair of hands" etc. I've lost count of the number of times people have said he's a steady pair of hands and he sorted out the wage bill at Derby, under difficult circumstances! From the outside, he appeared to be harshly sacked from Derby, but I'm guessing it was similar reasons to why he got sacked from us, and when you follow it as a fan from the inside, you see things totally different to what you would from the outside and that's not emotions coming into it, it's following it every week. That's just my views. There are thousands of Blades fans who don't like or don't rate our chairman, partly because of his management appointments and question him regularly. Personally, I think he's got his heart in the right place and has pumped millions in, as well as appointing some indifferent managers or inexperienced ones who can always go either way. I've learned a lot about Burton and your chairman, who sounds quality. Thanks for the debate and I reckon you'll finish in the play offs this season, which would be a great achievement, largely due to Rowett and JFH. ;-). I really like Rowett by the way, I can see him being a really top manager one day. I'll certainly keep any eye on Burton with interest as the season enfolds. Proper football fan our booker 4. Totally agree with that tm. People should be allowed to have opinions.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2015 8:25:33 GMT
The irony of that statement is mind blowing
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Post by observer on Dec 12, 2015 8:47:30 GMT
Peacock has seen the light!
Peacock he does have a point you know
And I mean this in a friendly way as you are one of the best posters on here and forum is stronger because of you
But ever so quick to question opinions that you don't agree with
But I agree with your post
And booker I agree you know your football but we can still disagree a bit
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2015 10:46:13 GMT
Brewers love in ! Good stuff lads!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2015 11:34:35 GMT
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