The FA Proposing Big Changes To Football League

[Deleted]

I hope this stays in the main section of the board as it's relevant to BAFC and (in my opinion) will irreparably damage our level of football in order to serve the needs of the big boys who sit at the top table of English football.

The bullet points from the findings of the FA (headed by Greg Dyke) commmission;

• The creation of a new tier within the Football League to accommodate Premier League B teams to begin in 2016/2017. This will be known as League 3 and will consist of 10 Premier League B teams and 10 from the Conference. 19 of the 25 players in the "B" squad should be under the age of 21, there would be no non-EU players allowed and 20 of the 25 players in the squad should qualify for the home-grown rule.
• B teams could be promoted and relegated between Leagues One, Two and Three and the Conference, but could not play in the Championship and must always be at least one division below the full side
• A "strategic loan approach" which is designed to allow clubs from the top two English leagues to loan players to a lower division 'partner' club to enable greater opportunities for 18 to 21-year-old English footballers. Basically every lower league club would become a feeder club for the "good of English football" - some would benefit if they are partnered up with one of the big guns, others would not

I feel that if this is implemented then a sizeable amount of clubs would suffer through absolutely no fault of their own and lower league football would never be the same again. Anyone out there fancy Hull City B away on a Tuesday night? How's about a Boxing Day fixture vs. a West Ham "B" team? Then of course there is the fact that these 10 "B" teams would inevitably rise to the top at the cost of the more established football league clubs who have worked their arses off to get to where they are.

Personally I think the idea is ludicrous and I'm asking you tonight to just consider signing this petition so that you can let the FA know that you "say no to "B" teams"

Say No To "B" Teams

It's merely a request. If you feel you agree with the FA and Mr. Dyke's proposals then that's entirely up to you. If, like me, you don't then I ask you to have a quick look and please find a minute to sign the petition.

Thank you for your time and bring on the play offs

[Deleted]

Good post Spence, I am not against a change, because I think something does need to be done to help develop good young English players and also I think that the existing system is not sustainable in the long term. However, I do not think though (at first reading) that this proposal will will be workable. I will though read the full report/proposal before taking a proper view. Good to see that fans are using social media in a positive way.

[Deleted]

The full report... 84 pages!

www.thefa.com/~/media/files/pdf/england/the-fa-chairmans-england-commission-report.ashx

[E7#9]

Make a rule that English teams at all levels MUST have at least 5 England eligible under 21 players in the 1st team squad every games and only 2 non-EU players in any starting 16.

Or my alternative (and arguably more radical), you can only ever play for any team from an area where you can clearly evidence you have a personal connection. E.g. Born there, went to school there.

That would even things up a bit.

[no1brewer]

I sat listening to Greg Dyke in disbelief His rhetoric was hideous, his only concern is for the EPL and the England national side - nothing else matters.

If he had come up with an idea that any 'B' was only for British (UK based) kids, then I could maybe understand it. But all this would do is allow the so called big clubs to bring in even more overseas players and give them a run out, how on earth can that benefit England? Our grassroots football is already in disaray, this would kill it!

This commission is a joke already - what a pathetic proposed strategy.

For me, none of our clubs country wide should be allowed non UK based kids in their academies etc up until the age 18 - thus allowing our kids the best coaching, facilities and opportunities to progress up the ladder. Local councils should be providing free pitches and facilities for all Saturday/Sunday kids leagues games and the FA should be heavily investing in more and more highly trained and technical coaches.

[Deleted]

A lot has been made in recent seasons of Southampton's conveyor belt of young talent. Les Reed, who is Executive Director at Saints and who spent time overseeing the Youth Academy, scouting and recruitment there was interviewed by their local paper after the commission's findings were made public.

“There’s talk about a B league sitting between the Conference and League Two, in order that our young English players can get the experience of playing at the top level,” Reed told the Daily Echo.

“I don’t understand that definition.

“Why would we want to develop elite players for international and Premier League football by playing them in a league that sits just above the Conference?

“We’ve got a terrific conveyor belt of players coming through our under-16s, under-18s, under-21s – each of those age groups are the youngest age groups in the Premier League, so we’ve got the youngest under-21 team, the youngest under-18 team, and the reason is five of them are in the first team.

“That, to me, seems to be a much better model.

“James Ward-Prowse will tell you that playing against Morgan Schneiderlin in training every day, working with him, playing with him on the pitch, playing with Victor Wanyama, international players of that calibre, makes him a better midfield player.

“He’s not going to get that playing against teams at League Two level and the Conference, so I think the idea (that) another league playing lower than League Two is going to make our young players better, I just don’t see the logic in that.

“I think it’s laughable.”

It's worth noting that Reed wasn't involved or consulted as part of the FA commission despite being heavily involved in a very recent example of a successful youth system.

Dyke also stated that the Football Conference had been part of the discussions as they would be affected by any changes. They put out a statement last night saying this was the first they'd heard about it.

[Deleted]

Also caught this on twitter -

Number of UEFA "A" Coaches

England 1,178
Germany 5,500
Spain 12,720

Cost of a UEFA "A" Course

England £5,600
Germany £433
Spain £981

[claymillman]

Danny Mills says that they spoke to 650 people about these proposals. Obviously from the posting above, they didn't speak to the right 650 "experts". I have signed one of the petitions against a league 3. If your interested this can be found on "www.againstleague3.co.uk".
There is also an interesting Radio 5 debate available on BBC site. This features Steve Claridge and Danny Mills. Claridge is steaming about it.

[Deleted]

Thank you spence for two excellent articles, one on league 3 and the other on UEFA A licence numbers and coarse costs.
I have signed the petition. I am very anti these proposals from a none football man like Greg Dyke. Absolutely no consideration for the supporters in the lower leagues whatsoever as you would expect.
Football in this country has never been the same since the formation of the Premier league. It could be run and administered much better, it is over greedy and intolerant of any other competition or the national side. We play way too many matches due to divisions being too large in comparison to the continent. But that's another story.
I remember the days when clubs ran a first team, reserve team and youth squad, that is where the major clubs should be playing their lesser squad and young players in properly organised reserve and youth team leagues not competing in B teams against other professional clubs first teams. Young promising players were developed by the club they signed for and if a big club came along they paid a transfer fee for them.
Today we have ridiculous situations with top clubs having 60 players signed on and loads of them loaned out to smaller clubs !
I would scrap the loan rule completely, allowing emergency loans only for circumstancies where a club didn't have a fit goalkeeper or not enough fit players to put out a team. That would prevent the super rich clubs from having so many players on their books ! Problem solved !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Greed in the upper reaches of our game is ruining football in this country with foreign owners and corporations controlling football clubs with no idea of club history, fan loyalty and how we identify with our clubs geography etc etc etc. I could go on and on !
One thing for sure is that if we got rid of the loan rule we would then see who the good up and coming managers are because they would have to work with what they have got.
I must sound like Mr Angry here having a good rant but in his own words "it makes my blood boil" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Deleted]

May 9, 2014 17:32:01 GMT @terraceman57 said:

Thank you spence for two excellent articles, one on league 3 and the other on UEFA A licence numbers and coarse costs.
I have signed the petition. I am very anti these proposals from a none football man like Greg Dyke. Absolutely no consideration for the supporters in the lower leagues whatsoever as you would expect.
Football in this country has never been the same since the formation of the Premier league. It could be run and administered much better, it is over greedy and intolerant of any other competition or the national side. We play way too many matches due to divisions being too large in comparison to the continent. But that's another story.
I remember the days when clubs ran a first team, reserve team and youth squad, that is where the major clubs should be playing their lesser squad and young players in properly organised reserve and youth team leagues not competing in B teams against other professional clubs first teams. Young promising players were developed by the club they signed for and if a big club came along they paid a transfer fee for them.
Today we have ridiculous situations with top clubs having 60 players signed on and loads of them loaned out to smaller clubs !
I would scrap the loan rule completely, allowing emergency loans only for circumstancies where a club didn't have a fit goalkeeper or not enough fit players to put out a team. That would prevent the super rich clubs from having so many players on their books ! Problem solved !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Greed in the upper reaches of our game is ruining football in this country with foreign owners and corporations controlling football clubs with no idea of club history, fan loyalty and how we identify with our clubs geography etc etc etc. I could go on and on !
One thing for sure is that if we got rid of the loan rule we would then see who the good up and coming managers are because they would have to work with what they have got.
I must sound like Mr Angry here having a good rant but in his own words "it makes my blood boil" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Still not read the whole report so not commenting on that properly yet, however, there is much in your post I agree with terraceman57. Just a couple of things though, to be fair to Dyke, it is not 'his' proposal, it is from a commission with some very credible people included. Also whilst I agree with just about everything you say about the Premier League etc (and I had been toying with the idea of banning loans myself), how do you 'put the genie back in the bottle'? Like it or not, the Premier League and a billion pounds or so TV deal is here and probably here to stay.

[Deleted]

Thanks for the reply Funky. Yes I agree with you about Greg Dyke and the commission and that the multi million pound Premier league is here to stay. Banning loan deals would force them to alter the way they operate. Maybe with less players to pay some of them may almost break even !
Those at the top end should not be allowed to dictate to the less well off of how the structure of the leagues should operate to suit them by accommodating their B teams.
I notice the punishment for failing fair play rules is virtually non existent though, no surprise there then and that a club of the stature of Barcelona only get a slap on the wrist for breaking transfer regulations.
I gather one of the ideas of league 3 is to get future players who will qualify to play for England quality competitive football against top opposition. Anyone who has witnessed league 2 football this season will know that is simply not the case. I think Les Reed at Southampton is on the right lines with his thinking.
Lastly could anyone tell me why the cost of a UEFA A Licence costs so much more money to obtain in this country compared to the continent ?
I genuinely fear for the future of our game !

[Deleted]

May 9, 2014 22:34:30 GMT @terraceman57 said:

Thanks for the reply Funky. Yes I agree with you about Greg Dyke and the commission and that the multi million pound Premier league is here to stay. Banning loan deals would force them to alter the way they operate. Maybe with less players to pay some of them may almost break even !
Those at the top end should not be allowed to dictate to the less well off of how the structure of the leagues should operate to suit them by accommodating their B teams.
I notice the punishment for failing fair play rules is virtually non existent though, no surprise there then and that a club of the stature of Barcelona only get a slap on the wrist for breaking transfer regulations.
I gather one of the ideas of league 3 is to get future players who will qualify to play for England quality competitive football against top opposition. Anyone who has witnessed league 2 football this season will know that is simply not the case. I think Les Reed at Southampton is on the right lines with his thinking.
Lastly could anyone tell me why the cost of a UEFA A Licence costs so much more money to obtain in this country compared to the continent ?
I genuinely fear for the future of our game !

All good points and I fear for it too (the future of our game), which is why I am not against some form of change. Will read the report over the weekend, I suspect that it will just depress me, but who knows, there may well be something in there to build on.

[claymillman]

I agree with all of the concerns aired here, and the greedy Premier League. What adds to my anger is the prospect that in addition to the "B" premier teams, we lower clubs will be "helped" by becoming associated with another top flight club, allowing us to use many of their upcoming players, and benefiting from the this clubs assistance in training. In other words clubs like ours would become satellite clubs of say Aston Villa, or perhaps West Brom. No thanks.
I know something needs to be done to have more English players, (and managers), in our top flight game. To my mind the easiest way is surely to limit how many non English players are listed in the 16 for any game. This could be done with a yearly rising number within the 16 who are English. Some top clubs would struggle to list 3 players in 16 at the moment. This must be driven to raise the numbers to perhaps 9 or 10 from the 16. This simple rule would soon concentrate the top clubs attention.
The other major factor must be to make coaching courses more affordable, as they are in other countries. St. George's Park was built to assist the FA here, after much delay by insisting in spending three times as much money as necessary to keep a National Stadium at Wembley. A venue which is expensive and difficult to get to from most parts of England.
Overall the F A makes you despair.
Of course the rule change regarding limiting non English players is actually a decision for the Premier League. They obviously do not want this type of restriction. They prefer to spend on foreign players, with lip service to the F A. Our game is in a mess.

[Deleted]

May 10, 2014 8:43:25 GMT claymillman said:

I agree with all of the concerns aired here, and the greedy Premier League. What adds to my anger is the prospect that in addition to the "B" premier teams, we lower clubs will be "helped" by becoming associated with another top flight club, allowing us to use many of their upcoming players, and benefiting from the this clubs assistance in training. In other words clubs like ours would become satellite clubs of say Aston Villa, or perhaps West Brom. No thanks.
I know something needs to be done to have more English players, (and managers), in our top flight game. To my mind the easiest way is surely to limit how many non English players are listed in the 16 for any game. This could be done with a yearly rising number within the 16 who are English. Some top clubs would struggle to list 3 players in 16 at the moment. This must be driven to raise the numbers to perhaps 9 or 10 from the 16. This simple rule would soon concentrate the top clubs attention.
The other major factor must be to make coaching courses more affordable, as they are in other countries. St. George's Park was built to assist the FA here, after much delay by insisting in spending three times as much money as necessary to keep a National Stadium at Wembley. A venue which is expensive and difficult to get to from most parts of England.
Overall the F A makes you despair.
Of course the rule change regarding limiting non English players is actually a decision for the Premier League. They obviously do not want this type of restriction. They prefer to spend on foreign players, with lip service to the F A. Our game is in a mess.

Again some very valid points Claymillman, however, I think it is not possible to restrict EU players in anyway, it would be a breach of EU employment rules I think.. There are already restrictions on non EU players, I.e. They need a work permit and there are qualifying rules for these (often disregarded on appeal I think).

Not certain on any of that so I stand to be corrected.

Even if restrictions were allowed though, I believe the Premiership teams would be against them because they simple want the best players and don't give a fig about English football. One options, a Full European elite League, Man U, Chelsea, Man City, go away and play with someone else. Crap option though...

[claymillman]

I know the EU laws allow for free travel and movement for employment. But I believe an "English League" could propose limits to be able to call itself an "English League". i.e) The England football team is made up of Englishmen, (sometimes with mixed blood). EU can't say here you must be able to play any EU citizen who wishes to be considered.
I do though agree that the Premier League would be against a non English limit. They don't want their gravy boat rocked

[Deleted]

May 10, 2014 10:44:18 GMT claymillman said:

I know the EU laws allow for free travel and movement for employment. But I believe an "English League" could propose limits to be able to call itself an "English League". i.e) The England football team is made up of Englishmen, (sometimes with mixed blood). EU can't say here you must be able to play any EU citizen who wishes to be considered.
I do though agree that the Premier League would be against a non English limit. They don't want their gravy boat rocked

I don't think you can Claymillman, it is the same as any other employment situation. I could not set up and English Faggots company and only employ English people. You could choose only to have a team made up of English born players but if you did you would run the risk of a challenge that you are operating in a prejudicial way, whether or not you did it overtly or covertly.

[Deleted]

I may be wrong by the way, please someone correct me if I am. The proposals are that the B teams must have 20 of their squad 'homegrown'. I am not sure how you can make that fit EU law?

This is an excellent article from Martin Samuel, including some alternative ideas (banning loans features). Shame it is in the Daily Mail.

www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2623700/Greg-Dykes-plan-Premier-League-B-teams-end-disaster-just-like-Spain.html#ixzz31JM0tNPf

(as found on the NPower League 2 Facebook page)

[Deleted]

articles on the subject

www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/27355856

www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/27340856

www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/27340850

[Deleted]

May 10, 2014 10:44:18 GMT claymillman said:

I know the EU laws allow for free travel and movement for employment. But I believe an "English League" could propose limits to be able to call itself an "English League". i.e) The England football team is made up of Englishmen, (sometimes with mixed blood). EU can't say here you must be able to play any EU citizen who wishes to be considered.
I do though agree that the Premier League would be against a non English limit. They don't want their gravy boat rocked

Vote UKIP that will remove the EU citizen rules ! Plus many more ills that plague our nation !

[Deleted]

May 10, 2014 12:34:07 GMT @terraceman57 said:

May 10, 2014 10:44:18 GMT claymillman said:

I know the EU laws allow for free travel and movement for employment. But I believe an "English League" could propose limits to be able to call itself an "English League". i.e) The England football team is made up of Englishmen, (sometimes with mixed blood). EU can't say here you must be able to play any EU citizen who wishes to be considered.
I do though agree that the Premier League would be against a non English limit. They don't want their gravy boat rocked

Vote UKIP that will remove the EU citizen rules ! Plus many more ills that plague our nation !

Not with you on that one terraceman!