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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2014 14:18:15 GMT
Vote UKIP that will remove the EU citizen rules ! Plus many more ills that plague our nation ! Not with you on that one terraceman! No worries funky !
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2014 14:20:08 GMT
I'm glad to see that Richard Scudamore is speaking out against it. Hopefully it's genuine and not just for the media. Funky - when I saw the words "non EU", the phrase "discrimination" poppped straight into my head. In this day and age and in this political climate, it would never happen.
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Post by 9sirchristian on May 11, 2014 16:20:29 GMT
Why not just have a 'b ' League with those proposals about young players, but not in the League pyramid. Why not make it compulsory for teams in the Premier League (the only division Dyke cares about)to run a reserve side like in the old Central league.
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Post by E7#9 on May 13, 2014 21:52:17 GMT
I hate Premiership football and it's fans. With their designer tops, swilling fizzy near-beer, betting coupons sticking out of back pockets whilst they loudly extol their knowledge of the game to each other and shout at the TV in the corner of the bar, expressing intimate details of Suarez' abilities to punish a sloppy defence yet still being unable to identify Uruguay on a map, even if you held one of their stubby little hands and waved it vaguely over South America.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2014 10:19:08 GMT
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Post by claymillman on Jun 7, 2014 10:35:41 GMT
Pleased to see that idea put to bed. It would have ruined our league football.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2014 10:55:38 GMT
"There is also a call for a ban on non-European Union players outside of the top-flight, the development of "strategic loan partnerships" between clubs, as well as a reduction in non-homegrown players in Premier League squads."
These parts of the plan could serve the purpose of "accommodate Premier League B teams" and "improve English football homegrown talent" without creating the new tier...
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woody
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Post by woody on Jun 7, 2014 12:26:25 GMT
So the premiership can still have Suarez and co but the likes of Calvin Zola and Jacgues Maghoma will not be allowed to play in the football league? Premiership clubs can pick and choose from a raft lower league of clubs to be their loan partner and then strategically dictate who plays in the first team? Obviously a win win situation for some.
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Post by claymillman on Jun 7, 2014 12:32:30 GMT
It was reported that the Football League as well as rejecting the B league proposal, they also rejected the strategic lower club partnerships the F A and of course Premier League wanted. I am hoping these proposals are dead in the water!! It is true though that the likes of Maghoma and Zola would be excluded from playing in England though, if the F A get their way.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2014 13:20:58 GMT
They need to leave the football league alone ! All of the problems stem from the Premier leagues own greediness. It is there management of that competition that is affecting the development of young English talent, so they need to have a good long look at themselves first and foremost. "why worry about the sawdust in someone else's eye when you can't see because of the plank in yours" or something to that effect !
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Post by claymillman on Jun 7, 2014 14:30:19 GMT
They need to leave the football league alone ! All of the problems stem from the Premier leagues own greediness. It is there management of that competition that is affecting the development of young English talent, so they need to have a good long look at themselves first and foremost. "why worry about the sawdust in someone else's eye when you can't see because of the plank in yours" or something to that effect ! Exactly. The Premier clubs should look at clubs like Southampton, and learn how to develop their own English talent. This would prevent the need to spend vast amounts on foreign players, and have more English players within the English league. In Spain regardless of European law, I understand that Athletico Bilbao only use Basque players within their team, so it seems it is is possiible to recruit your own players without breaking the law.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2014 19:57:55 GMT
So the premiership can still have Suarez and co but the likes of Calvin Zola and Jacgues Maghoma will not be allowed to play in the football league. Where on earth did you get that idea, surely they are uk citizens and a "reduction" does not mean zero. Changes need to be made, and they need to identify what those are. There are proposals on the table, the leagues can provide feedback, have the proposals reworked, discuss again....and repeat for as long as it takes to get it right. A problem with the Prem, and it is creeping down into the leagues, is foreign ownership and the amount of money involved. But if you own a business...you want to make money...imagine how many Gareth Bale shirts were sold last week...
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2014 20:16:14 GMT
Clay, regarding the Bilbao situation, I read this:
Since 1912, Athletic Bilbao has followed a strict unwritten rule of only fielding Basque players, although recently the rule has become more flexible with a few non-Basque players playing for Los Leones (The Lions).
Whilst Athletic Bilbao’s football achievements speak for themselves, their Basque-only rule continues to be controversial.
Those in favour of the rule argue that it promotes the culture and traditions of the fiercely patriotic Basque region – but critics question whether the restriction contravenes freedom of movement laws.
I recently discussed what the position might be if a club in the UK tried to adopt a similar approach to that of Athletic Bilbao with one of my colleagues – immigration law specialist Angus Harrison.
On the face of it, refusing to recruit foreign workers (or even those from another part of the same country) would seem to fall foul of several regulations, none more so than the Equality Act 2010.
It would seem that the tradition and history of football has managed to trump the letter of the law Under this Act, race, nationality and ethnic origin are all protected characteristics and an employer cannot simply prefer one person over another because of such characteristics.
In recent years there have been calls in the UK for a new rule to be passed which would set a minimum number of ‘home-grown’ players which each club would have to field in their starting line-ups - the ultimate aim being to improve the overall standard of national sides by having more players playing regular, competitive football.
Although the football authorities (including Fifa) have considered introducing such a rule, their conclusion has been that it would be incompatible with European freedom of movement laws.
Perhaps the most curious aspect of Athletic Bilbao’s ‘home-grown’ rule is that it has never been truly challenged.
As Spain has ratified Protocol 12 of the European Convention on Human Rights (forbidding discrimination by any public bodies), Athletic Bilbao remain vulnerable to a challenge in Strasbourg.
However, as their rule becomes more and more relaxed, it seems less likely that a serious legal challenge will ever be made.
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woody
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Post by woody on Jun 7, 2014 21:23:10 GMT
Change is all well and good but from what I recall the original statements were all about how the lower league clubs would be offered a financial incentive to accept these proposals and it would be in their best interests to agree. There is no level playing field to negotiate on. The Premier League hold all the power and can push through whatever they want - like they did with changes to the academy system (Elite Player Performance Plan). Ironically, The Premier League, with the exception of a handful of clubs, are not lobbying for these changes and it is the FA who are in an untenable position. They are a law making body without any teeth these days, and a dysfunctional one at that.
Are you sure Zola did not need a work permit sorting when he came to Burton? If he did, then he would have no chance under these new proposals.
All I am saying is be careful what you wish for because it's the little clubs and their supporters that will end up suffering for the sake of the wealthy big boys, playing real life football manager games for fun, with no concern for the consequences.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2014 21:59:19 GMT
So the premiership can still have Suarez and co but the likes of Calvin Zola and Jacgues Maghoma will not be allowed to play in the football league. Where on earth did you get that idea, surely they are uk citizens and a "reduction" does not mean zero. Changes need to be made, and they need to identify what those are. There are proposals on the table, the leagues can provide feedback, have the proposals reworked, discuss again....and repeat for as long as it takes to get it right. A problem with the Prem, and it is creeping down into the leagues, is foreign ownership and the amount of money involved. But if you own a business...you want to make money...imagine how many Gareth Bale shirts were sold last week... It is a proposal I agree, but let us be clear, the proposal is not a reduction. The proposal is that no non EU citizens would be given a work permit to play below the Premier League. It is unequivocal about what the proposal is.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2014 10:33:24 GMT
Whenever a proposal for change is applied for it is easy to read too much into what is being said and look at what could happen, but difficult to know what will happen. The original proposal for a new tier seems to have been nixed by the Leagues (for now at least). Over the course of time I would imagine other changes will be made to the original proposals regardless of how unequivocal they appear. Unless we are sitting at the table we don't know what they are really pushing for and why, or what the major concerns are. There are probably a few things that they are trying to avoid happening: the watford situation comes to mind as well as the watering down of home-grown talent, exploitation of players from poorer countries who would play for less money and a visa etc. I'm not suggesting that I know any of this is fact, it's another speculation. The input from all leagues is critical for success, the wishes of rich foreign owners not so much. Anyway, I prefer to think that the FA are trying to do the right thing regardless of how much of it they get right first time around.
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Post by claymillman on Jun 8, 2014 12:01:15 GMT
A problem I have in all of this regarding EU free movement of people and jobs is this. I do not object to it in principle, and overall it seems to work well, but it appears to stop anyone promoting a locally deemed project. For instance until very recent years Yorkshire Cricket team only recruited Yorkshire players into their squad. This wasn't seen by people as being anti-anyone else. It was seen as being a patriotic pro Yorkshire. The team truly was Yorkshire. This could be applied similarly to Athletico Bilbao. It seems though that European law prevents this now. In the early days of football if Derby County were playing Bolton. the 2 teams were from Derby and Bolton, not players from afar. This may not now be feasible, but I see nothing wrong in the spirit of playing sports against each other. From the other angle our international teams are recruited on the basis of the player's nationality. I haven't yet heard of say a German player who is deemed not quite good enough to play for Germany cause a problem by insisting he be considered for Holland, under the freedom of movement EU directives. The national identity holds firm then, so why not local identities for team games etc?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2014 13:04:26 GMT
A problem I have in all of this regarding EU free movement of people and jobs is this. I do not object to it in principle, and overall it seems to work well, but it appears to stop anyone promoting a locally deemed project. For instance until very recent years Yorkshire Cricket team only recruited Yorkshire players into their squad. This wasn't seen by people as being anti-anyone else. It was seen as being a patriotic pro Yorkshire. The team truly was Yorkshire. This could be applied similarly to Athletico Bilbao. It seems though that European law prevents this now. In the early days of football if Derby County were playing Bolton. the 2 teams were from Derby and Bolton, not players from afar. This may not now be feasible, but I see nothing wrong in the spirit of playing sports against each other. From the other angle our international teams are recruited on the basis of the player's nationality. I haven't yet heard of say a German player who is deemed not quite good enough to play for Germany cause a problem by insisting he be considered for Holland, under the freedom of movement EU directives. The national identity holds firm then, so why not local identities for team games etc? The EU which we never voted to be in is not good for the working people of this country and never has been unless you are a banker, big business or a politician on the euro gravy train. Your point claymillman emphasises the ridiculousness of the situation. It may not be in our lifetime but the real powers that be(and I know who that is) will achieve their goal of a United Europe with no borders and England will just be a region, you will be European full stop ! I don't know why we obey all of the laws, directives they dish out because as you will know the rest of Europe just pay lip service to them. What has all this got to do with football ? Well basically they don't give a damn about us only the mega rich clubs.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2014 16:50:17 GMT
Sport, Politics and religion should never be merged into a discussion topic...thats how wars start... Anyway, back to sport. Football is apples, it is "played by 250 million players in over 200 countries, making it the world's most popular sport". It is also the richest sport and watched by more people in more countries than any other sport. Cricket (and rugby) are oranges. I don't how many countries play competitive cricket or rugby internationally but I would assume it is under 20 for each. So I don't think we can reasonably compare the three as football has become such a huge business. It's by no means perfect but I wouldn't want to roll back the years, too far at least. Considering players who are legally allowed to play for countries other than their birth country, I think the requirements are "born in the country, (grand)parental blood lines, and length of residency (when a non-national can get a passport). So if a German had Dutch grandparents he qualifies to play for Holland. Remember the 2006 World Cup, Englands best player was a Canadian....because his parents were born in Bolton area..
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Post by claymillman on Jun 8, 2014 16:57:05 GMT
Sport, Politics and religion should never be merged into a discussion topic...thats how wars start... Anyway, back to sport. Football is apples, it is "played by 250 million players in over 200 countries, making it the world's most popular sport". It is also the richest sport and watched by more people in more countries than any other sport. Cricket (and rugby) are oranges. I don't how many countries play competitive cricket or rugby internationally but I would assume it is under 20 for each. So I don't think we can reasonably compare the three as football has become such a huge business. It's by no means perfect but I wouldn't want to roll back the years, too far at least. Considering players who are legally allowed to play for countries other than their birth country, I think the requirements are "born in the country, (grand)parental blood lines, and length of residency (when a non-national can get a passport). So if a German had Dutch grandparents he qualifies to play for Holland. Remember the 2006 World Cup, Englands best player was a Canadian....because his parents were born in Bolton area.. The principals of my argument shouldn't change because of a sports popularity, or otherwise.
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