|
Post by mikeyboy on Aug 21, 2019 13:54:06 GMT
Average attendances in League 1 so far and proof of how much we are punching above our weight under Nigel Clough:
1 Sunderland 31,319 2 Ipswich Town 21,414 3 Portsmouth 18,661 4 Rotherham United 10,706 5 Blackpool 10,231 6 Peterborough United 9,014 7 Bolton Wanderers 8,901 8 Lincoln City 8,842 9 Tranmere Rovers 8,300 10 Milton Keynes Dons 8,066 11 Doncaster Rovers 7,339 12 Bristol Rovers 7,235 13 Shrewsbury Town 6,760 14 Coventry City 6,755 15 Oxford United 6,535 16 Southend United 6,356 17 Wycombe Wanderers 5,848 18 Gillingham 4,536 19 Rochdale 4,422 20 AFC Wimbledon 4,318 21 Burton Albion 4,193 22 Fleetwood Town 2,501 23 Accrington Stanley 2,284 24 Bury n/a
|
|
|
Post by broomo on Aug 21, 2019 14:17:57 GMT
Average attendances in League 1 so far and proof of how much we are punching above our weight under Nigel Clough: 1 Sunderland 31,319 2 Ipswich Town 21,414 3 Portsmouth 18,661 4 Rotherham United 10,706 5 Blackpool 10,231 6 Peterborough United 9,014 7 Bolton Wanderers 8,901 8 Lincoln City 8,842 9 Tranmere Rovers 8,300 10 Milton Keynes Dons 8,066 11 Doncaster Rovers 7,339 12 Bristol Rovers 7,235 13 Shrewsbury Town 6,760 14 Coventry City 6,755 15 Oxford United 6,535 16 Southend United 6,356 17 Wycombe Wanderers 5,848 18 Gillingham 4,536 19 Rochdale 4,422 20 AFC Wimbledon 4,318 21 Burton Albion 4,193 22 Fleetwood Town 2,501 23 Accrington Stanley 2,284 24 Bury n/a When you consider that our two home games have been against two of the top 4 supported teams in the league as well. I do expect our average to go up if we keep playing the way we are and if we hang in and around the play offs but we all also know there will be games where we struggle to get 2500 through the turnstiles. We really are punching well above our weight and the fact some of us fancy our chances of pulling off another massive miracle and getting back to the promised land is pure fairy tale stuff. Look at the make up of the clubs above us as well. A couple of real basket case clubs, a couple that have gone bust, one that doesn't play at its own ground, two that have been formed less than 20 years, one that is on the verge of extinction and playing a group of kids. The Brewers have done everything right, never caused a problem on or off the field and have over achieved on a massive scale. I'd love to think we could somehow sneak our way to a MASSIVE 18th in that table and get close to a 5k average but I'm not holding my breath.
|
|
|
Post by mikeyboy on Aug 21, 2019 18:21:22 GMT
I do often wonder if we are doing absolutely everything on this issue of growing the fan base. Whether we have the right people involved in it and how committed they are in comparison to some of the people on this forum? Anyone else have these doubts?
|
|
|
Post by bennyboy on Aug 21, 2019 19:15:21 GMT
I've stood with a good number of regulars on the popside over the years, there every match without fail. Since we dropped back to L1 some stopped attending, citing they won't be back until a change of management. It's absolutely barmy the way some folk expect us to compete with the bigger clubs yet stay away. Notice I didn't call them fans, they certainly are not, their loss, we are playing some good stuff ATM.
|
|
|
Post by insideleft on Aug 21, 2019 19:22:51 GMT
Football clubs (cricket and rugby) in more recent times have employed chief executives and marketing directors to maximise and increase revenue which would include monies through the turnstiles.
We’ve discussed it on here (pros and cons) before but clearly at Bradford City playing Div 2 football and getting gates of 15000 to 20000 was the result of a range of initiatives some years ago.
I have wondered what a marketing director would do given the brief to increase gates by x%. I’ve no experience in this field so I’ve no ideas at all but I suspect there are answers although it might still always come back to the lack of seating.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2019 19:35:30 GMT
The figures after two games are a bit distorted, but I recall posting last season that there were only 8 (or 9) fewer teams in the EFL that enjoyed a lower level of support. That includes League Two.
|
|
|
Post by A38 on Aug 21, 2019 19:55:25 GMT
I do often wonder if we are doing absolutely everything on this issue of growing the fan base. Whether we have the right people involved in it and how committed they are in comparison to some of the people on this forum? Anyone else have these doubts? There has never been a marketing push, I live out of catchment these days but was in Lichfield for a few years and Villa were a mess at the time, a few ads in the paper, offers and such like could have attracted fans and I really believe could have got traction. Newspaper was covering Chasetown and that was about it, yet I was 20 mins door to door to Pirelli when lived there. I think there’s a maths challenge with our club season ticket wise. Essentially the season ticket is too pricey to attract new people in (miss a couple of games and it doesn’t stack up). However if we currently have say 2,000 season ticket holders paying an average of £300, to offer a cut-price £200 season ticket we’d have to increase the uptake by 50% to cover the lost revenue and I don’t think the club will ever have the confidence to do so, understandably so. So we’re stuck where we are. Attendances will never improve unless something more radical done — the Championship adventure has proved that.
|
|
|
Post by insideleft on Aug 21, 2019 20:02:01 GMT
The figures after two games are a bit distorted, but I recall posting last season that there were only 8 (or 9) fewer teams in the EFL that enjoyed a lower level of support. That includes League Two.
|
|
|
Post by mikeyboy on Aug 21, 2019 20:05:55 GMT
It was interesting that prople were telling us that Rotherham and Barnsley were similar sized clubs when we were in the Championship. I think Andy Garner once fell into the trap of saying “We should be beating teams like Barnsley” - well they look a good bit bigger to me!
|
|
|
Post by broomo on Aug 21, 2019 20:10:20 GMT
I can see why the club are hesitant to change too much or to try anything too out of the box.
First of all we're a family run club and no one can argue that family has served us brilliantly over the last couple of decades. I can see why it would be difficult to bring in an outsider, outsiders usually come with their own ideas on how to do things and can't always run to someone else's strategy. Secondly I think the club have done a lot already, freezing season ticket prices for so long was a brilliant gesture. Maybe there could have more incentives around new season ticket customers and certainly at the kids and OAP's level. We've got to remember we were seeing gates of around 1000 in 1999, 20 years ago. We've quadrupled our following over a generation. That's some going already.
Finally I think there have been a real couple of watershed moments which must have Ben thinking "what do we have to do" and be wondering if the investment in more seats is worth the gamble.
We got 2499 for a Championship home game. Just before the January transfer window when more than 2499 people on facebook were demanding new signings. 2499 for a championship fixture, that broke my heart so I can only imagine how Ben, Fleur and the management team must have felt.
Then last season, we draw Burnley, a premier league club and again get less than 2500, we draw Forest, a massive club compared to us and a club from just down he road and the away fans outnumber the home fans. The Villa game, nobody goes 'cos we've played them half a dozen times in the last 3 years.
It seems apathy has set in, it seems as a non league fan we all had dreams of playing these big clubs in one off games but now we play them week in week out, we've lost our desire.
Extra seats are going to cost, if Ben pays that and we get it wrong, it could set us back years.
I don't know what the answer is anymore, I do hope we've got someone measuring the demand for seats and that's a big area of doubt for me. I don't think we have but I also don't think I'm entitled to ask the question and expect an answer.
I honestly think we're relying on a miracle on the pitch and probably on selling more key players to give us enough of a cushion. That puts a lot of pressure on NC.
Even a glamorous cup draw doesn't bring any guarantees of a windfall for us anymore. We made a million from the Man Utd Cup game, I bet we only made close to that for getting to a semi final and even then there wasn't really any excitement until the semi final draw was made.
We're in a tough spot, we probably want to push the boat out and invest but we're back to the fact we're a family run club who's town has shown little sign that even if we did invest they'd turn out in their thousands.
We need to get back to the Championship where our players would be worth more than they are in League One and instead of finding one player a season to sell on, we need 2 or three, then we need a sell on clause and a 20million signing of Scotty Fraser the 26 year old free scoring midfielder. A 5 million one off injection will finally set us up.
|
|
|
Post by broomo on Aug 21, 2019 20:14:07 GMT
The figures after two games are a bit distorted, but I recall posting last season that there were only 8 (or 9) fewer teams in the EFL that enjoyed a lower level of support. That includes League Two.
Wow, am I right in reading that we've had the biggest drop % wise in the whole of the football league? That goes some way to explaining why Ben daren't put the future of the club at risk just to put a few extra seats in.
|
|
|
Post by dcpedigree on Aug 21, 2019 20:19:49 GMT
Inside, your spot on, it all hinges on the lack of seating, from bringing in school kids on mass or enticing older people to come, its seats seats seats. The days of terracing being the preferred option is over. But it's that initial investment.
|
|
|
Post by NobodyGood on Aug 21, 2019 20:35:50 GMT
I might be in the minority but I don't think seats are going to make a huge difference. Maybe an extra hundred, absolute maximum imo. I'm sure those at the top have done the maths and know the demand for it
|
|
|
Post by mikeyboy on Aug 21, 2019 20:38:51 GMT
Personally I think you have to look at what has happened at other clubs where seats have been installed or they have moved to a new ground. Rotherham, Saturdays opponents are a good example, as from memory their crowds at Millmoor we frequently 3,000 ish but the move to the New York Stadium has increased that to above 10,000. Doncaster would be similar and Oxford another example. Seats and an enhanced match day experience are the key I’m sure.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2019 20:43:56 GMT
Personally I think you have to look at what has happened at other clubs where seats have been installed or they have moved to a new ground. Rotherham, Saturdays opponents are a good example, as from memory their crowds at Millmoor we frequently 3,000 ish but the move to the New York Stadium has increased that to above 10,000. Doncaster would be similar and Oxford another example. Seats and an enhanced match day experience are the key I’m sure. it is not just what it brings in now, but what it develops in the future, a safe and friendly family area for example.
|
|
|
Post by britty on Aug 21, 2019 20:45:00 GMT
Wow, am I right in reading that we've had the biggest drop % wise in the whole of the football league? That goes some way to explaining why Ben daren't put the future of the club at risk just to put a few extra seats in. We have seen these stats on here before. Think our old friend had a field day over them! Yes it is the biggest drop due to our relegation - however we need to remember that the number is distorted due our low home fan base and the drop in away support. Can you remember how many times in the championship our away end wasn't packed? Can you remember how many times our away end was empty in L1? I suspect our away attendance in the championship was c1200 on average, dropping to an average of 600 in L1. This 600 drop would be c13% of the reported drop in attendance. The rest, sadly, is Burton fans and is still a large number. This happens with most relegated teams though.
|
|
|
Post by bobgauden on Aug 21, 2019 21:07:33 GMT
Many people nowadays prefer seating over standing so if we're regularly selling out the seating then the logical thing to do would be to increase them. I'd install them in along a section of the popside then any newcomers will be happy whilst those that prefer to stand would still have that option. I do believe the club could be doing more to distinguish if folk could be enticed by seating by simply having a few of the community trust team simply talking to people in the town centre, local newspapers, web etc.
Nothing ventured nothing gained. We definitely could and should be doing more.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2019 21:37:06 GMT
Many people nowadays prefer seating over standing so if we're regularly selling out the seating then the logical thing to do would be to increase them. I'd install them in along a section of the popside then any newcomers will be happy whilst those that prefer to stand would still have that option. I do believe the club could be doing more to distinguish if folk could be enticed by seating by simply having a few of the community trust team simply talking to people in the town centre, local newspapers, web etc. Nothing ventured nothing gained. We definitely could and should be doing more. It is all one side or nothing though bob isn't it. You cannot half seat a terrace, because as the seats meet the standing area, those sat down cannot see through those stood up. The only possible option is to seat the front of the terrace and allow standing behind, but it is almost unmanageable logistically. Also, looking at the depth of the steps on the Popside, I don't know how it would be done. Would we end up with every other step being levelled off? If so we would only get 7 or 8 rows of seats. it is a real dilemma.
|
|
|
Post by mikeyboy on Aug 21, 2019 21:50:22 GMT
|
|
|
Post by bartonyellow on Aug 21, 2019 22:15:24 GMT
I think we needed this year to try a Bradford style season ticket offer. Or kids for a quid Or something different to pull people in. We do need to knock down the popside now and build a smart single tier seated stand like at Oldham.. As I think standing puts people off. Those in Barton I speak to say it does for them.
|
|