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Post by mikeyboy on Feb 18, 2020 20:17:44 GMT
(NC has said in that recent podcast yes he is always going to be looking to move elsewhere if the situation arises (or words to that effect) and it's only a matter of time that may come true. It must be very frustrating knowing he could do a similar job elsewhere but maybe with a larger spending pot, bigger crowds to fund that etc etc.) If the above is true then I personally dont care if we’re playing at Arsenal or Aylesbury... Thanks for the memories and ta-ra. It’s one thing thinking it and another thing saying it. Yeah it’s great being honest but how many people can walk into work with that attitude and expect to stay in a job? Most of us, frankly. I work for the Burton Mail and Derby Telegraph. I wouldn't be being disloyal and I won't try any less hard for my employers if I admit quite openly that if a national football magazine, newspaper or website offered to double my wages I'd take it. That's not going to happen to me at my age. Nigel Clough has put his heart and soul into this club while he's been here because the basic honesty instilled in him by his dad stops him from doing anything else. If you think we would have got as far as we have without the unique partnership Clough and Robinson have brought to this club, you are deluded almost beyond belief. There is only one other club who have come close to doing what Burton have done without a massive injection of cash and they are Accrington Stanley. They haven't yet reached as high as us. They did start from a lower base though Colston.
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Post by otep on Feb 18, 2020 20:30:31 GMT
The ones saying that the current style of football is dire are probably the same ones who fawned over how great and exciting the football was under JFH and Gary Rowett before him. It is all a myth. Those two played 'winning', pragmatic football. Nigel admitted after he arrived that he took the shackles off the players and allowed them to be a bit more expressive and attacking. We were hard to beat under GR and JFH but we definitely weren't exciting to watch. I really enjoyed watching the JFH brand of football. The transformation under his stewardship was almost instantaneous and a joy to watch. Lovely passing, possession football with real thought and intelligence.
In the main, Rowett football was really, really dull but effective.
Just thought I would throw my opinion in to the pot there. Other opinions are widely available which is why football is so great.
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Post by broomo on Feb 18, 2020 20:49:40 GMT
I just disagree. You've listened to it. He simply said he remained ambitious and that the chairman has never stood in his way (the fact that this club and this chairman works that way is a long established fact). Elsewhere in the podcast he says the chairman advised him about the Derby job: "You have to take it." The manager is damned if he gives an honest answer to a question and has frequently been damned if he has avoided answering one. Some people only want to damn others. Why, I cannot fathom. He shouldn’t say it, end of story. I’m not sure he’d get away with it at the level he believes he should be operating. Rubbish.
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Post by bobgauden on Feb 18, 2020 21:05:02 GMT
He shouldn’t say it, end of story. I’m not sure he’d get away with it at the level he believes he should be operating. Rubbish. Is it? I’m not so sure. Imagine a manager at a bigger club admitting they’re looking to use said club as a stepping stone, massively undermining. They’d get crucified and rightly so, but it’s little old Burton so it doesn’t matter.
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Post by insideleft on Feb 18, 2020 21:08:50 GMT
Is it? I’m not so sure. Imagine a manager at a bigger club admitting they’re looking to use said club as a stepping stone, massively undermining. They’d get crucified and rightly so, but it’s little old Burton so it doesn’t matter. Yes it is.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2020 21:44:59 GMT
I'm a bit astonished at what I have been reading. NC was linked at just about every club in the football league during his 1st spell. Chesterfield, Vale, Grimsby, Sheff United etc on many occasions. I defy anyone that may suggest these were all a figment of the press.
So he stays loyal throughout all that, eventually leaves with the Chairman's blessing to his dream job (apparently the hardest decision ever).
And then he comes back and is honest in an interview and you think it is disloyal?
I always preferred every manager saying nothing to see here, no official approach, blah, blah blah, before buffering off 5 mins later, such as Rowett and JFH. Really?
They always knew the score, Ben knew the score, why is it fans see different?
Lastly I loved the successful football under Rowett and JFH. There was a craft to the defensive brilliance and eye for a player under Rowett. JFH was pragmatic in the extreme, brought in a gem in Nasser, but was the king of the 1-0. Free flowing, passing football? Nope.
Be careful of what you wish for, both ownership and manager.
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Post by britty on Feb 18, 2020 22:52:14 GMT
Is it? I’m not so sure. Imagine a manager at a bigger club admitting they’re looking to use said club as a stepping stone, massively undermining. They’d get crucified and rightly so, but it’s little old Burton so it doesn’t matter. I agree with you to a certain extent Bob. When asked about his future in management his first response was about wanting to get a new job. He also said he had been applying for jobs and not even getting call backs from it. He then talked about his current commitment to Burton. I have no problems with nigel or any manager wanting to go on to bigger and better things. If he had responded the other way, commitment to current job then stated ambition to manage a bigger club and he has the blessing of the owner, I don't think I would have batted an eye lid over it. I can see how his response could add fuel to the "clough out brigade" fire.
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Post by 1950brewer on Feb 18, 2020 22:59:38 GMT
As you intimate Ian the vast majority of fans ultimately want to see a winning team. Part of the beauty of the game, however, is the way that teams set up in the hope of producing those much-needed results thus craved by the supporters. Defending is as much an art as scoring & whilst it may not attract as much fervour & support amongst the fans, there is much to be admired when it's carried out. I have to say,however,that I'm a results man, pure & simple, so let's get back to those one nils !
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Post by britty on Feb 18, 2020 23:02:12 GMT
Back to original topic.....
I appreciate I am in a minority here as I wasn't there in the non league days and I guess you could put me in the bandwagon camp. My views for what it's worth....
The fact that Burton have come from where they have should be celebrated. It's a massive achievement. Unfortunately that is not a good enough reason to retain the supporters who jumped on the supposed bandwagon. We can't expect people to appreciate where the team have come from if just simply they were not involved in it.
Why have I not drifted away when so many other bandwagoners have. I guess I have felt a connection to the club. Many people won't have done because honestly, they were intrigued by what was happening at the pirelli and wanted to see Newcastle play there. Oxford utd on a cold Tuesday night when there is premier League on the TV just is not an attraction to many transient football fans.
It's a sad state of modern day football I'm afraid.
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Post by 1950brewer on Feb 18, 2020 23:48:47 GMT
You make a valid point Britty about supporters (can't call them fans) who would prefer to stay at home & watch Liverpool/Man Utd on the box. These are generally football watchers who think football began with the premier league. Unfortunately these football watchers spend that much time watching "top-class" football that they expect the Albion players to be able to perform equally as well & are unable to work out why they are not up to the same standard. With regard to my"bandwagon" comments I'm pleased to see that you have jumped aboard & are continuing your support.
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Post by broomo on Feb 19, 2020 0:43:34 GMT
Is it? I’m not so sure. Imagine a manager at a bigger club admitting they’re looking to use said club as a stepping stone, massively undermining. They’d get crucified and rightly so, but it’s little old Burton so it doesn’t matter. He was hammered for years for having no ambition and that was cited as the reason "we'll never get anywhere under Clough" and other gems like he's got a cushy job. He's earning a lot less than his abilities (and achievements) deserve. On top of that you want him to show loyalty to a fan base many of which refuse to acknowledge what he has done and is still doing for the club? I won't be popular here but if I was him I'd have been off a long time ago. All he's done here is answer a question he was asked. Some people look for reasons to criticise, others take it for what it was. Reality. He is the same as any other professional and competitive person, he wants to test himself at the highest level possible. He feels he deserves a crack with a club who have more than 2000 fans (200 of which want him gone anyway). He feels he could do a job at a higher level I agree
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mick
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Post by mick on Feb 19, 2020 9:11:07 GMT
Agree entirely Broomo and if he went tomorrow he would leave with my heartfelt thanks for a brilliant job done on next to nothing resources - even consolidating as we are is a massive achievement and this seems to be recognised by fans of other clubs more than some of our own. Why some fans cannot see this is beyond me.
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Post by trevor1946 on Feb 19, 2020 11:43:26 GMT
Is it? I’m not so sure. Imagine a manager at a bigger club admitting they’re looking to use said club as a stepping stone, massively undermining. They’d get crucified and rightly so, but it’s little old Burton so it doesn’t matter. Nice to welcome you back bob, i can see the record has not changed Clough must be deluded spending about 14 years with a club, that can only muster just over two thousand fans in a Championship game, this is along time for a stepping stone, and even more deluded turning down Nottm Forest who take treble the away fans than turn up at the Pirelli at a championship home game.. Clough whose loyalty is without question, or some lost soul who puts playing Arsenal in the same bracket as Aylesbury, Little old Burton playing in League 1, that should be the attraction, Look at what we are up against Southend 16 points all season 22nd out of 23 in the league table, played Gillingham on a wet and cold Tuesday night , lost again but over -6-000 fans turned up , ,
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2020 11:48:39 GMT
With the players we have (can afford), if we tried to play expansive free flowing pretty football we would get walloped every week. The only way we are going to get any sort of result is to dig in and play ugly. All I seem to hear week in week out particularly on faceache, is "I'm not going anymore to watch that rubbish". So as the attendances fall so does the revenue, so does the quality. We have some of the smallest crowds in the football league, so yes we are punching above our wallet. I don't see that we can survive for much longer in league 1 on the finances that are available to us. We are not the only club in this position and the unfortunate episode with Bury may stop one or two clubs overspending. If Nigel should move on, and it could easily be to another league 1 or even league 2 club that can pay him considerably more and have the finances to be realisticly ambitious, we may get another good manager or we may get another Pesch or Mac Farland
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Post by bennyboy on Feb 19, 2020 11:50:18 GMT
Agree entirely Broomo and if he went tomorrow he would leave with my heartfelt thanks for a brilliant job done on next to nothing resources - even consolidating as we are is a massive achievement and this seems to be recognised by fans of other clubs more than some of our own. Why some fans cannot see this is beyond me. ^^^ditto^^^ Whenever I get into a discussion about team selection, why is so and so playing, what about bringing on a sub or the big one, why hasn't he signed a new striker etc. I always reply with, because he's fit, because he hasn't got anyone better, or lastly we can't afford one. It's usually a short conversation and we usually agree NC is doing the best (incredibly so) with what we have.
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Post by broomo on Feb 19, 2020 12:15:38 GMT
With the players we have (can afford), if we tried to play expansive free flowing pretty football we would get walloped every week. The only way we are going to get any sort of result is to dig in and play ugly. All I seem to hear week in week out particularly on faceache, is "I'm not going anymore to watch that rubbish". So as the attendances fall so does the revenue, so does the quality. We have some of the smallest crowds in the football league, so yes we are punching above our wallet. I don't see that we can survive for much longer in league 1 on the finances that are available to us. We are not the only club in this position and the unfortunate episode with Bury may stop one or two clubs overspending. If Nigel should move on, and it could easily be to another league 1 or even league 2 club that can pay him considerably more and have the finances to be realisticly ambitious, we may get another good manager or we may get another Pesch or Mac Farland See his is where my direct nature gets me in trouble If you think the quality of football we play is going backwards then you can't judge football at all. We're playing some of the best stuff I've ever seen us play with some of the most technically gifted players we've ever had. If you can't see that then I don't really see the point in discussing football with you.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2020 13:01:32 GMT
With the players we have (can afford), if we tried to play expansive free flowing pretty football we would get walloped every week. The only way we are going to get any sort of result is to dig in and play ugly. All I seem to hear week in week out particularly on faceache, is "I'm not going anymore to watch that rubbish". So as the attendances fall so does the revenue, so does the quality. We have some of the smallest crowds in the football league, so yes we are punching above our wallet. I don't see that we can survive for much longer in league 1 on the finances that are available to us. We are not the only club in this position and the unfortunate episode with Bury may stop one or two clubs overspending. If Nigel should move on, and it could easily be to another league 1 or even league 2 club that can pay him considerably more and have the finances to be realisticly ambitious, we may get another good manager or we may get another Pesch or Mac Farland See his is where my direct nature gets me in trouble If you think the quality of football we play is going backwards then you can't judge football at all. We're playing some of the best stuff I've ever seen us play with some of the most technically gifted players we've ever had. If you can't see that then I don't really see the point in discussing football with you. I think you misunderstand what I am saying. We may be playing the best stuff you have seen with some of the most technically gifted players we have ever had, but it's clearly not good enough. And some of those gifted players seem to move on very quickly when offered more money eg Boyce, Irvine Naylor Maghoma. Sorry that i'm not a good judge of football.
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Post by trevor1946 on Feb 19, 2020 17:56:30 GMT
I must agree Brixham ,and with broomo too, we are trying to play attacking football,and some of the players putting on a Burton shirt would be unbelievable 5 years ago. But we are also con=seeding far to many goals for a realistic top six finish, So we have a choice take on the opposition ,or defend in depth. Clough has gone for playing on the front foot. very brave taking much bigger clubs on and still finishing top half of the table. Playing with the yellow brick wall,can be favourable to bigger clubs, when only 1 goal can get a result, and they can afford to play more top class players . and we could finish top half of the table, which is a good season, So flair football is Nigels choice. 5 points of 11th we play Southend away on sat. would not like to be in Cloughs shoes
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Post by bobgauden on Feb 19, 2020 18:37:03 GMT
I'm a bit astonished at what I have been reading. NC was linked at just about every club in the football league during his 1st spell. Chesterfield, Vale, Grimsby, Sheff United etc on many occasions. I defy anyone that may suggest these were all a figment of the press. So he stays loyal throughout all that, eventually leaves with the Chairman's blessing to his dream job (apparently the hardest decision ever). And then he comes back and is honest in an interview and you think it is disloyal? I always preferred every manager saying nothing to see here, no official approach, blah, blah blah, before buffering off 5 mins later, such as Rowett and JFH. Really? They always knew the score, Ben knew the score, why is it fans see different? Lastly I loved the successful football under Rowett and JFH. There was a craft to the defensive brilliance and eye for a player under Rowett. JFH was pragmatic in the extreme, brought in a gem in Nasser, but was the king of the 1-0. Free flowing, passing football? Nope. Be careful of what you wish for, both ownership and manager. Putting words in my mouth here. I’m not talking about loyalty, sure he could have jumped ship many times to bigger clubs, just I don’t want a manager saying he’s basically waiting for the correct opportunity before he goes. Doesn’t matter if it’s Nigel or Pep saying that, in my eyes he should keep quiet on that one. It’s certainly not Burton Albion being the winner here and if you can’t see that then theres just no point discussing it. As I said before, we all know Burton is a stepping stone for most , just don’t bloody say it. What’s the point?
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Post by otep on Feb 19, 2020 18:42:31 GMT
I agree with Broomo when he wrote 'If I was him I would have been off a long time ago'.
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