Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2017 18:02:02 GMT
49 to Cardiff midweek fantastic burton fans, and what a reward for the win, without looking into aspects of why many more did not make it Be nice gesture if they all got a Man Utd ticket for free. I am proud of every one of them, and so pleased they had a brilliant experience. What a brilliant post and a great idea Trevor. I'm going to post something on facebook if you don't mind? I'll put £100 quid in to get the ball rolling, I think it would be a great gesture if everyone who went to Cardiff was shown the appreciation their efforts deserved. Even if it's £40 a ticket. £1960 quid would do the trick. If anyone else is up for chucking into a pot, even a couple of quid, fantastic. If not and money is tight, no pressure or daft obligation. I reckon we'll know within a couple of hours of a post going up if the general fan base thinks it's a decent idea or if they think it's a bit cheeky. It would be a fantastic gesture but I think it would be an even better opportunity for the club to take this on and pay for their tickets and travel. I’m not knocking the original idea at all but it would be a cracking bit of PR for the club who (unjustly) get knocked quite a bit for not subsidising travel now and then.
|
|
|
Post by NobodyGood on Aug 24, 2017 18:07:06 GMT
What a brilliant post and a great idea Trevor. I'm going to post something on facebook if you don't mind? I'll put £100 quid in to get the ball rolling, I think it would be a great gesture if everyone who went to Cardiff was shown the appreciation their efforts deserved. Even if it's £40 a ticket. £1960 quid would do the trick. If anyone else is up for chucking into a pot, even a couple of quid, fantastic. If not and money is tight, no pressure or daft obligation. I reckon we'll know within a couple of hours of a post going up if the general fan base thinks it's a decent idea or if they think it's a bit cheeky. It would be a fantastic gesture but I think it would be an even better opportunity for the club to take this on and pay for their tickets and travel. I’m not knocking the original idea at all but it would be a cracking bit of PR for the club who (unjustly) get knocked quite a bit for not subsidising travel now and then. Yep. £2k out of the million we make will be good enough for me. And I think it's a top idea.
|
|
|
Post by keggy on Sept 2, 2017 12:38:36 GMT
Anyone aware of how many tickets we sold? I was 100% against going but now I'm having second thoughts.
|
|
|
Post by NobodyGood on Sept 2, 2017 12:42:55 GMT
Anyone aware of how many tickets we sold? I was 100% against going but now I'm having second thoughts. And me... I probably still won't go as Manchester United, Aston villa and Fulham are preferable for me. A lot of £££ to spend. Then again I want to see our new lads play
|
|
chad
Schoolboy Papers
Posts: 4
|
Post by chad on Sept 7, 2017 8:34:48 GMT
Thanks for the add admin
I hope you don't mind me joining the conversation as a Leeds fan who lives in the East Mids & a season tickets holder at Elland Rd for 36 years I just wanted you Burton fans see it from our perspective.
Firstly let me say I categorically do not agree with such high prices at Leeds or at any other club, football has been ruined by money over the last few decades, however please let me allow me to offer some justification from LUFC;s perspective.
As most of you will know when Leeds fell from grace practically bankrupt in 2004, there were no parachute payments to steady the ship, so the whole team was sold, the ground was sold, the training complex was sold, (even the goldfish were sold) The then owner (Ridsdale) had gambled the clubs foreseeable future & it failed, miserably. prices at that stage were pretty standard for the premier league. Enter MR BATES!
When old Batesy took over the club his approach was price it high & if crowds dropped to 20-21K on average, then that would save on policing costs, save on opening certain sections of the ground etc. If I remember kids season tickets were £299 at the time. It was around this time when my own kids stopped going to games, turning 16, they went from kids prices straight to paying in access on £500 a season. His argument (& I have a degree of sympathy here) was that Leeds suddenly had to pay rent for the ground & training facility at some £2-3 million a season. "If we wanted success back, we had to pay for it" was pretty much his outlook.
Of course spending no money on players meant a very drastic decline for the club, which eventually ended with administration, various points deductions & another player clearance. If you can imagine in five short years as a fan, I had watched us in a champions league semi final, we were now minus 15 points in league one but still paying equivalent to lower end premiership prices.
Forward on several years & we claw our way back to the Championship, a couple of ownership changes see us hung out to dry by certain investors before in steps Mr Cellino. Well I think its safe to say that was a mad roller coaster of a ride & the less said the better.. At this point I will say prices were steady but still quite expensive.
May 2017 Cellino goes & in steps Mr Radrazzani, within months he buys back the ground, invests in ground improvements, invests in the team, to the tune of around £100,000,000. Now prices remain the same but for the first time ever in my memory, price incentives have been offered "kids for a quid" against Newport the other week, guess what over 17,000 turn up. Leeds utd may be the only football club in Leeds but rugby is (& has always been) very popular in the city, at less than half the price of watching LUFC you can see the Rhinos who are one of the top teams in the world & regularly get 20,000 + crowds.
The Burton game is classed as cat B which means its a little cheaper (by a fiver) than most other games but as Burton fans I can understand you not wanting to pay so much. Firstly though, to get prices down, its no good saying well charge Leeds fans higher prices. (To be fair we always pay the highest prices at a club anyway) As football fans we need to be listened to as one voice, doing that would only divide fans further. Secondly for those who don't know, football regulations do not allow you to charge home/away supports different amounts in the same stand etc. Leeds fans pay exactly what you guys will pay in the West & East stands (Every other week) Thirdly, declining to enter executive areas is not the way forward. Indeed it should be exactly the opposite, it would give your directors the chance to question pricing policy of Leeds, Wednesday, Norwich etc directly to our owner, who has of course has only just taken over the club & as such is not really responsible for the years of over charging which has also lost us a generation of future support.
All the above said, from a pure business point of view (At the moment) Leeds have been averaging 30,000+ for the last half of 2016 & this season, so it really goes to show most people will pay the going rate if their club is run positively & professionally. In many ways losing 1,000K away fans is a small price to pay for 30,000 paying top dollar, although there is nothing better in my book than the away end filed with nearly 3,000.
Whatever you as individuals decide to do is your call, for those of you attending enjoy what should be another very atmospheric & partisan match. I of course hope we take the spoils but wish you every success going forward, your club deserve it.
|
|
|
Post by keggy on Sept 7, 2017 12:28:58 GMT
Maybe some of these owners/chairman need a few lessons off our Ben. Sorry about your past but im not helping to pay for it.
|
|
|
Post by bennyboy on Sept 7, 2017 13:47:08 GMT
Maybe some of these owners/chairman need a few lessons off our Ben. Sorry about your past but im not helping to pay for it. I was going to say the same. We are pretty unique in the fact we must be one of a very few clubs having the same chairman/supremo at the helm for many many years, certainly as long as I've been a supporter and beforehand. Shudder to think if it should change but here's hoping it will pass down the family, eventually without too much disruption and we carry on in the same vein, gradually moving forwards and upwards under the correct financial management.
|
|
|
Post by trevor1946 on Sept 7, 2017 15:18:03 GMT
To compare Leeds Utd to Burton Albion, shows how deluded we can get, with all these complaints about away prices shows our non league mentality. Ben Robinson runs a div 2 club, with in my opinion one of the finest managers in the country, who has put together a quality div 1 squad. With a non league ground, a fan base of 3000 living the dream .A Player costing 500,ooo Breaking the transfer record, Our future probably hoping to be a yo-yo- club, With a championship Infrastructure achieved in 10 years. People having to juggle finances over what matches to watch is not new ,But to try and be a champion of the people, is sad. To all our fans going to the match, enjoy the occasion. To fans not going enjoy the radio cometary ,And be proud of the people giving their vocal support to the lads 30,000 fans attending, shows what a big club Leeds are ,And being in the championship is a come down to such a big club. Not going to the game nobody cares, going to the game magic what a occasion for our club.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2017 15:21:10 GMT
Their last published accounts they lost £9 million. I understand there are many structural problems and long term debts, but they still ran a wage bill of circa £16 million.
Their choice, no sympathy.
|
|
|
Post by keggy on Sept 7, 2017 18:11:48 GMT
Their last published accounts they lost £9 million. I understand there are many structural problems and long term debts, but they still ran a wage bill of circa £16 million. Their choice, no sympathy. Exactly!!! Only 1 winner when you compare this. Whos deluded now?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2017 18:43:14 GMT
Their last published accounts they lost £9 million. I understand there are many structural problems and long term debts, but they still ran a wage bill of circa £16 million. Their choice, no sympathy. I agree with you on a lot of what you've said on their forum and on here Funkster, I'd just add a little tiny disagreement, 'cos I know we'll discuss it like grown ups ;-) I don't think any of the issues have been brought about by their fan base, the fans on the whole have been magnificent (apart from the obvious violence of the past). I'd agree they've perhaps ben guilty of being a bit (slightly) delusional about where they are now versus where they should really be but their fans have turned up in huge numbers and supported the team through a series of pretty dodgy owners/chairman. The price of tickets is ridiculous, their wage bill ridiculous but they're not on their own in that respect. They've spent a few quid again in the summer, I think Janssen cost them £3m plus, the other lads didn't come cheap, I think they signed as many players as us in fact. So you're right, the wage/transfer bill is "their" choice but "their" is not the fans, it's the owners. I think the Leeds fans are entitled to enjoy the fact they're competitive again, they're entitled to be excited by the quality of player they've signed and they're even probably a little bit entitled to get defensive when people have a go at their club. I'm not saying Leeds are doing things the right way but it's football that is wrong, not just Leeds. Fix football first, it's gone too far. I think it's fair to say that you criticism of Leeds right now is and should be aimed at past owners and in the direction of getting the current owners to do things differently but it's difficult to criticise the owners without indirectly criticising the fans and I'm not sure they deserve that. In terms of not going to the game or going to the game, I agree we shouldn't have to pay the prices they are charging but the other side and the stronger pull for me is this, after this season, I may never get to watch Burton Albion at Elland Road again, I may never get to see Burton Albion play at this level again. I may never get to watch as good a Burton Albion side as I am watching right now, I might never get to watch another Nigel Clough side play this well at this level. For one reason or another, I've missed a couple of home games this season (despite having a season ticket) and it absolutely gutted me but I've been to every away game so far and I want to try to watch every minute possible live at the ground, not on TV, not on bbc text. As long as I've got a bit of cash in my pocket I'd rather spend it on going to a game than anything else. I'm not delighted to be putting close to £40 quid into Leeds United's coffers but I see it as paying for the privilege of watching my team, under this manager guiding this brilliant squad of players and pitting their wits against arguably one of the biggest clubs in the history of the English game. The fact that we're competing with them in same division, having spent absolutely bugger all just puts a massive smile on my face. I need to be there. I personally think that most decent Leeds fans will have a huge amount of respect for us as a club, of course there'll be an element of their fan base looking down their noses at us but even that just makes the whole thing sweeter. Genuine football fans know what we're about, we know what we're about. It's unbelievable. The reality is Leeds are one of many clubs who have over spent, over committed and over charged, no better and no worse than at least 35 other English clubs. Their fans, the good ones don't deserve to be made to be the bad guys. It's not their fault football has nearly ruined itself.
|
|
chad
Schoolboy Papers
Posts: 4
|
Post by chad on Sept 7, 2017 19:35:38 GMT
I read with interest your reply's
As fans of which ever club you support, we have little if no voice in the choices our clubs/owners make. We have no choice in the prices we are asked to pay but we do have a choice as to whether we should attend games or not.
I personally have chosen over the years to stand by my team when things have gone from bad to worse to unbearable at times. Its cost me a bloody fortune over the years, I could have walked away like so many others & refused to pay the outrageous prices Leeds have charged but I didn't want my club to die.
There are times when it has felt (& still does) like the world is against us, I can understand why.. over the years some of our fans have done little to encourage sympathy, however for a lot of us,the constant criticism from outside has drawn us together "Us against the world" you might say, hence the very defensive/aggressive stance some fans take. Most of the criticism aimed our way (warranted or not) is often abusive/sarcastic or otherwise, very rarely is it constructive.
As football fans we are very protective of our clubs, I certainly didn't post looking for a sympathy vote, I posted to give Burton fans an alternative view & an understanding of why Leeds charge top prices. There are some of the very astute comments above & I can understand the sentiments in all posts.
Please celebrate the fact that Burton have achieved amazing progress over the last decade, its so easy for clubs to stretch just that little bit too much, success breeds expectation & that can be dangerous for any club at any level.
Onward & upwards for both our clubs
As for Saturday, if you are attending the game, the best pub for away fans is the Drysalters just past the White Rose Centre. Its mixed but always welcomes away fans. only ten mins walk from ground. Loads of pubs in the city too where you can catch football special buses to the ground for a few quid (near the Hilton hotel, next to train station) or around £6 in a taxi.
Sold around 31,000 so far so should be a good atmosphere for both sets of fans.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2017 21:31:45 GMT
Chad, you could isolate your paragraph about it being "us against the world" and that could easily have applied to us ever since we got into the football league and especially since we've been in the 2nd tier.
Every win is 100% down to the opposition not turning up (that one is frequently used by a commentator on Radio Derby), we're constantly being criticised for how big our support is, particularly away from home, the referees FAR more often than not favour the "big" club in this league (so we're screwed every time) and there's an element of our support on social media who are so critical of the club that it gives the outward impression that we don't know we're born which in turn attracts criticism from supporters of other clubs.
We might not share a great deal in common with Leeds and we might be poles apart in terms of stature but there is a little bit of that "mongrel" status about both of us. On the outside people say they don't want us around and resent our existence but on the inside they have to begrudgingly accept that we are who we are and we're not going anywhere. Well...you could go up and we could go down but you get my drift.
Anyway, you seem fairly decent and level headed. The reason you may have hit a bit of resistance on here could partly to be with the fact we've got a history of idiots from other clubs who turn up all smiles and end up outing themselves as total pr*cks. There was one from Reading in particular. He was fun.
|
|
chad
Schoolboy Papers
Posts: 4
|
Post by chad on Sept 8, 2017 6:39:46 GMT
Fully understand William & I see your point, I have seen it on our boards because you haven't historically got a "big club" reputation its easy for fans/media to be dismissive. The problem is that reputations don't play the football for 90 mins, players do & players have an awful habit of scoring.. Anyone who takes any team in this league lightly will be in for a shock at some point. I'm expecting a very tough game on Saturday & Mr Clough has a great record against us. The atmosphere my well just raise your team & put pressure on Leeds, as it did a little against Preston, so I would take a hard fought 1.0 win right now if im honest!
|
|
|
Post by trevor1946 on Sept 8, 2017 11:02:11 GMT
Nice that a few complaints about pricing can bring such constructive views,
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2017 15:03:24 GMT
Firstly, it is a good discussion and an interesting thread.
My own view is clear, but also consistently I have absolutely no issue, complaint or criticism of any Brewers fan going to the game. Carl Royals on FB made a good point that the views the prices charged by away club and averages them out over 3 or 4 games, therefore making it easier to justify.
I do though have strong views on financial viability of clubs. Leeds went into administration after chasing the dream, why should I have any sympathy at that? Where were the Leeds fans complaining about the the way was being run before the game against Valencia in 2001? It is not exclusive to Leeds, of course not, I remember the Pompey fans demonstrating about the way their club was being run on the eve of their FA Cup final victory in 2008... NOT!
I've seen it through all the leagues we have played in, Margate pipped us to the Southern League title and took the place in the Conference and there are so many other clubs we've encountered over the years, that if I listed them, I would be here all night, although Hornchurch in the cup deserves a special mention.
Now, not the fans fault, why punish them? Heard that as well, as Bury used to shake the buckets every other year. It is not punishing the fans it is publishing the clubs that allow it to happen.
Leeds starting in League One with a 15 point deficit. They were very lucky to be starting in the League! Let them start again at a ground they own in the Northern Prem, go and share with Farsley Celtic!
Administration and the wreckage/recovery is an easy 'victimless' way out for football clubs that overspend and 'cheat' their way up the Leagues.
In 2007, the list of Leeds creditors ran to 25 pages. I believe they ended up getting 4p in the pound. I am sure the St John's Ambulance were delighted with the £6.60 they got (an even if at a later date they were properly wedged), why should the window cleaners, the coach company etc etc have to put up with the shoddy way football is run. Meanwhile, the players got paid in full. It is a bizarre game.
And up to date, the latest accounts show an £9 million loss with a wage bill of £18million plus (players probably about £16 million), that is acceptable because Leeds are a big club?
Oh, and finally on this ramble, you cannot charge away fans more for similar accommodation than home fans, I don't think there is anything to stop you charging less.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2017 15:08:41 GMT
Thirdly, declining to enter executive areas is not the way forward. Indeed it should be exactly the opposite, it would give your directors the chance to question pricing policy of Leeds, Wednesday, Norwich etc directly to our owner, who has of course has only just taken over the club & as such is not really responsible for the years of over charging which has also lost us a generation of future support.
It is £20 for Burton Albion fans at Norwich on Tuesday.
|
|
|
Post by NobodyGood on Sept 8, 2017 16:31:35 GMT
Thirdly, declining to enter executive areas is not the way forward. Indeed it should be exactly the opposite, it would give your directors the chance to question pricing policy of Leeds, Wednesday, Norwich etc directly to our owner, who has of course has only just taken over the club & as such is not really responsible for the years of over charging which has also lost us a generation of future support.
It is £20 for Burton Albion fans at Norwich on Tuesday. Indeed. A good egg.
|
|
chad
Schoolboy Papers
Posts: 4
|
Post by chad on Sept 8, 2017 16:44:57 GMT
Well as case in point as Leeds are charged around £40 if memory serves at Norwich, Ipswich is expensive too at £42 I think. No argument here, we expect to pay the higher prices, some clubs rightly or wrongly take advantage of the large numbers Leeds take to away games & to a certain extent I cant blame them.
Reading your post ianmcgibbon I can see you do indeed have strong views on the financial side of things lol.
I cannot argue the with the rights & wrongs of a club falling into & exiting from administration, for I am no expert. I can say that it certainly wasn't just Leeds who have used this loop hole but they were certainly punished more than most with a total of 25Pts deduction over two years. I understand you think that may not be enough & you may indeed be correct. However lets take it one step further, how many companies outside of football cease trading & start up again in a different name, change the directorship to their spouse etc & owing money? Its completely & utterly morally wrong but it happens all the time.. Football is however different in that it evokes emotions like no other business & emotional decisions can sometime spell disaster.
You state the fans were not complaining whilst playing in the semi against Valencia, that we weren't because as fans we entrust the custodians of our clubs to run them in a certain manner, ensuring financial stability. Here in lies the problem however, the last twenty years has seen colossal investment into football & owners chase the rainbow as TV deals literally throw cash at our clubs. Its like a gambler chasing the jackpot in a casino..
I fully appreciate your stance on the matter but having clubs go under is no better, jobs lost, history gone, communities/towns/cities without their teams.
It only takes a few bad decisions & any club, at any level could face the same outcome. like I said previously, success breeds expectation. expectation breeds pressure, on a team , on a manager & ultimately on an owner. Burton at the moment are living the dream in respect of your past history. should the worst ever happen & one or two relegation's were to follow, owners could be tempted to gamble just that little bit more, you as fans on the whole probably would accept the gamble given that you have tasted the higher echelons of the football pyramid & the trust in your owner, its human nature I'm afraid.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2017 17:45:33 GMT
Well as case in point as Leeds are charged around £40 if memory serves at Norwich, Ipswich is expensive too at £42 I think. No argument here, we expect to pay the higher prices, some clubs rightly or wrongly take advantage of the large numbers Leeds take to away games & to a certain extent I cant blame them. Reading your post ianmcgibbon I can see you do indeed have strong views on the financial side of things lol. I cannot argue the with the rights & wrongs of a club falling into & exiting from administration, for I am no expert. I can say that it certainly wasn't just Leeds who have used this loop hole but they were certainly punished more than most with a total of 25Pts deduction over two years. I understand you think that may not be enough & you may indeed be correct. However lets take it one step further, how many companies outside of football cease trading & start up again in a different name, change the directorship to their spouse etc & owing money? Its completely & utterly morally wrong but it happens all the time.. Football is however different in that it evokes emotions like no other business & emotional decisions can sometime spell disaster. You state the fans were not complaining whilst playing in the semi against Valencia, that we weren't because as fans we entrust the custodians of our clubs to run them in a certain manner, ensuring financial stability. Here in lies the problem however, the last twenty years has seen colossal investment into football & owners chase the rainbow as TV deals literally throw cash at our clubs. Its like a gambler chasing the jackpot in a casino.. I fully appreciate your stance on the matter but having clubs go under is no better, jobs lost, history gone, communities/towns/cities without their teams. It only takes a few bad decisions & any club, at any level could face the same outcome. like I said previously, success breeds expectation. expectation breeds pressure, on a team , on a manager & ultimately on an owner. Burton at the moment are living the dream in respect of your past history. should the worst ever happen & one or two relegation's were to follow, owners could be tempted to gamble just that little bit more, you as fans on the whole probably would accept the gamble given that you have tasted the higher echelons of the football pyramid & the trust in your owner, its human nature I'm afraid. Football is indeed different because when this happens, the footballers still get paid and the creditors, such as the St John's Ambulance get less. I would trust the current owner should 'the worst happen' (albeit for us that would not be the worst), because we did not get here by chasing the dream and if we go back down, I don't think we would chase the dream to try to get back. Maybe if at the end of each season all clubs were audited and points were deducted per million pounds lost, that may see a different more sustainable approach
|
|