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Post by popsidepete59 on Mar 23, 2024 17:44:29 GMT
When in a crisis, send for Neil Warnock.
Both teams got what they deserved today.
There was no belief, no passion, no idea and no points.
Let's go for it, yeah, same formation, Powell sitting deep, when our forwards lost the ball, there wasn't a midfielder in sight to win the ball back .
Takes Hugill off, why.
Brings Hudlin on, no good being 6 foot 9 and not jumping.
How many more times are we going to get caught out on a break out from us having a long throw, corner or free kick.
We play much better as a 4-4-2, at least one of the midfielders can support the front 2.
Harper been playing well of late, ends up on the bench, no wonder players lose heart.
So much for putting a performance in for the late Stan Round and Pete Thomas, so much for having a go.
Utter garbage today, the best side won, Vale's first win of 2024, says it all.
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Post by Ilson Brewer on Mar 23, 2024 17:49:08 GMT
Two goalkeepers, Brayford - that’s about it. The rest can F off and the young loanees, sorry but you are not up to it. At least we won’t have to be humiliated by Clough’s Mansfield next season, or have to play Derby.
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Post by superbrewer on Mar 23, 2024 17:49:32 GMT
Well Patterson certainly knows now what the fans think of him ,after he came onto the pitch to applaud the fans ,he got plenty of abuse ,he looked shocked.
Will he be here next season ? I hope not.As I don't think I will be renewing my season ticket if he is still here.
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Post by Fred Andrews on Mar 23, 2024 17:51:55 GMT
One thing is for sure, if we need a goal on the last day of the season, with time running out, and MP is still in charge, we'll still have five at the back.
Some managers just can't see the wood for the trees, and are blind to what is going on.
With Jimmy, he became obsessed with two defensive midfielders, one of which was the absolutely terrible (left back) Borthwick-Jackson, and his refusal to see it didn't work cost him his job. Oh and the fact he seemed to want a squad of 30 players.
Dino started well, but ultimately drifted into his dreaded wing back formation, that rarely ever worked, the football was generally atrocious, some of the signings were baffling (that didn't even fit into his formation), and as we've learned from people at the club/former employees, his conduct & attitude was horrific. My way or the highway with him.
Paterson... pretty much Dino with a beard and better vocabulary. It's almost as if he's using DMs tactic book and making every single mistake that got Dino his marching orders. Stop flogging a dead horse! No matter how many times you try and put the square peg into the round hole, it's not going to fit!
We have 7 games left, and personally, Ben has an even bigger decision to make than he did two months ago. This CAN NOT continue...
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Post by Fred Andrews on Mar 23, 2024 17:59:19 GMT
We all said this would happen in January. I'm not saying Stockton, Walker or Gordon would've set the world on fire, but if it was between those & the dross we've brought in on loan? We might've saved money on wages, but we've likely bought ourselves a one way ticket to League 2 in the process. In fairness I thought Hugill looked OK at times today and for him to be taken off for Hudlin who just isn't a footballer was a sign of desperation and we weren't even losing then! I also actually think it's the formation that is the main issue and have thought so for most of the season. We can criticise the young loan players but it's really the system or lack of that's the major problem. Hugill is certainly the only spark of the signings. |
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Post by popsidepete59 on Mar 23, 2024 18:00:26 GMT
I'm sure the players don't go out to lose, well I know they don't.
But they are playing to the managers plans and formations, managers know it's a results game, if I was MP I'd be a worried man, we just ain't creating owt, so what do we do about it, nothing, same old, same old.
This brand of football certainly won't sell season tickets for sure
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Post by Ilson Brewer on Mar 23, 2024 18:38:04 GMT
I listened to MP interview after the match. He didn’t say much apart from he thought Port Vale were better and that he doesn’t think his players understand the predicament they are in. He made a very throw away casual comment about “changing the shape” as well when he was trying to explain the things he might need to do to turn things around.
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Post by stapenhill1953 on Mar 23, 2024 18:42:30 GMT
Fuming - that was a complete and utter car crash of a performance !! Vale had not won one of their previous 14 games! Once I saw the team sheet and how the team was set up I knew we were in for another 90mins of anti football and unfortunately I was proven right!! I am beyond angry - will possibly post again when I have gathered my thoughts! The performance was completely unacceptable that includes the manager as well as the players! I don’t know who sanctioned the incomings in January but they got it badly wrong!!
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Post by staffbrewer1950 on Mar 23, 2024 19:12:21 GMT
What an horrendous performance,against team that had not won for 50 years and scored by a striker who the vale fans reckon to be their worst ever.Patterson said they shaded it,what an insult,we made them look a decent side.We are well and truly in the poo,with players who don't look interested and a manager whose well out of his depth.His mate Michael Duff was at the match,god knows what he thought.Action's needed or we are down.,
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Post by craig1 on Mar 23, 2024 19:23:07 GMT
We all said this would happen in January. I'm not saying Stockton, Walker or Gordon would've set the world on fire, but if it was between those & the dross we've brought in on loan? We might've saved money on wages, but we've likely bought ourselves a one way ticket to League 2 in the process. In fairness I thought Hugill looked OK at times today and for him to be taken off for Hudlin who just isn't a footballer was a sign of desperation and we weren't even losing then! I also actually think it's the formation that is the main issue and have thought so for most of the season. We can criticise the young loan players but it's really the system or lack of that's the major problem. Totally agree with the above. MP stated yet again how training was good and they had worked on what’s required for this game? The formation was not working from the off yet again! and MP should have seen this but opted to stick with it? We’re playing at home against a team lower than ourselves in a local Derby…  Powell sitting too deep yet again, not sure whether to come to the ball or hold? When he does try to intercept their player just goes past him with ease or he commits a foul as he’s not a natural holding midfielder, Deji is… Bennett came back in and before he got injured again he was playing really well, however after 20 mins he was on his backside at every opportunity, should have been taken off sooner imo. Then 2nd half Hugill comes off for Hudlin? Come on??? I just don’t think MP knows when or how to make the changes needed and doesn’t show enough passion, and the players are not playing for him at all. He needs to go whilst we still have some hope! |
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Post by jamoboy on Mar 23, 2024 19:42:42 GMT
Absolute garbage again. I'm afraid to say MP is way out of his depth and I can't see where the next goal is coming from never mind the next point.
When the biggest cheer during the game is for a plastic bag blowing into the goal twice sums up the poor standard of our performance.
Now there's a thought, let's play the plastic bag up front against Wigan, at least it knows where the net is!
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Post by ianmcgibbon on Mar 23, 2024 20:05:12 GMT
Of the 97 mins played today, I wonder how much of it the ball was on play. My guess would be easily less than half.
Both teams woeful in wasting time and playing for set pieces.
The shirt pulling, blocking and general non football is really getting on my pip.
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Post by sleepless on Mar 23, 2024 20:22:24 GMT
Absolute garbage again. I'm afraid to say MP is way out of his depth and I can't see where the next goal is coming from never mind the next point. When the biggest cheer during the game is for a plastic bag blowing into the goal twice sums up the poor standard of our performance. Now there's a thought, let's play the plastic bag up front against Wigan, at least it knows where the net is! Next goal?. Where's the next decent shot on goal coming from?. |
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Post by insideleft on Mar 23, 2024 20:44:31 GMT
We all came away from the game today very depressed. I was disappointed with the jeering and booing of players and management from the stands and terraces at the end. It helps nobody. If you’re not good enough, you’re not good enough and that is where we are.
It’s a hopelessly imbalanced squad. We are top heavy in defenders (albeit good ones) and full backs who have been bought in and deployed as wingbacks. It’s no surprise that our defensive record is not too bad but it ends there.
If you wanted to go to a more attacking 433 or 442, I just don’t think we have the personnel.
If you take Joe Powell out of the lineup, who do you build a midfield around. We haven’t played with a midfield for 4 years, it’s no wonder we’re so weak there. There’s nobody who wants to get on the ball and dictate play, no creativity, nobody to take the game to the opposition, no goal scorer, no box-to-box energy. Quinn, Naylor, Duffy, Weir, Fraser, Edwards, Irvine…………….?
Who do you play in your front 3. There’s not a goal scorer on the books, nobody who can hold the ball up, nobody to run the channels, nobody who is good in the air and deal with our aerial attacks, no wide players. Just no threat at all.
How have we ended like this? Shambolic management over the last 3 years.
The game seemed set for a nil nil draw for long periods. Port Vale second half suddenly seemed to think we were there for the taking and pounded us for the last 30 minutes.
We had nothing to offer in return. We just are not good enough. I don’t blame the formation. I don’t blame the selection. I’ve criticised the way we play for the last four years and I don’t even blame that and I don’t think I blame the manager. He has inherited an absolute mess.
We let go a complete forward line in January and haven’t replaced them. We were hopelessly weak in midfield and experience and that wasn’t addressed. I really don’t know how much say or involvement MP had in this but I suspect very, very little.
Booing and jeering won’t get us out of this.
We may grab a result at Wigan and it can all change………………………maybe.
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Post by staffbrewer1950 on Mar 23, 2024 21:17:59 GMT
You can understand the fans booing and jeering today,we've had enough of watching absolute dross,week after week,month after month.Afterall,we were playing a team in worse form than ourselves and they embarrassed us on our own pitch.If it carries on,we'll be back in the national league before we know it.
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Post by fergo on Mar 24, 2024 6:33:12 GMT
Am not a fan of booing or jeering your own players, staff however bad it gets as it doesn't help the situation.
However games at the Pirelli recently have become depressing. Football is supposed to be entertainment and we certainly are not getting any of that. Some bloke near me on the pop side said towards the end that PV looked like Man City playing in light blue ("here's Grealish, to Rodri"). Best laugh I had all day lol.
When I saw the team today I knew we were in trouble (5 at the back, why) although I was encouraged slightly by Mason Bennett's return as he was starting to find form before he got injured.
Hugill tried his best and was perhaps our biggest threat and then he takes him off and replaces him with the basketball player!! Oshi was terrible. Why do you continue to play him Martin? and no Harper?
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Post by staffbrewer1950 on Mar 24, 2024 8:08:57 GMT
I wonder why the manager and players thought it was a good idea to clap the fans at the end of the match yesterday.It was pretty obvious what the fans reaction was going to be,after a shocker of a performance.It was the most toxic I've ever seen it.
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Post by britty on Mar 24, 2024 8:14:30 GMT
We all came away from the game today very depressed. I was disappointed with the jeering and booing of players and management from the stands and terraces at the end. It helps nobody. If you’re not good enough, you’re not good enough and that is where we are. It’s a hopelessly imbalanced squad. We are top heavy in defenders (albeit good ones) and full backs who have been bought in and deployed as wingbacks. It’s no surprise that our defensive record is not too bad but it ends there. If you wanted to go to a more attacking 433 or 442, I just don’t think we have the personnel. If you take Joe Powell out of the lineup, who do you build a midfield around. We haven’t played with a midfield for 4 years, it’s no wonder we’re so weak there. There’s nobody who wants to get on the ball and dictate play, no creativity, nobody to take the game to the opposition, no goal scorer, no box-to-box energy. Quinn, Naylor, Duffy, Weir, Fraser, Edwards, Irvine…………….? Who do you play in your front 3. There’s not a goal scorer on the books, nobody who can hold the ball up, nobody to run the channels, nobody who is good in the air and deal with our aerial attacks, no wide players. Just no threat at all. How have we ended like this? Shambolic management over the last 3 years. The game seemed set for a nil nil draw for long periods. Port Vale second half suddenly seemed to think we were there for the taking and pounded us for the last 30 minutes. We had nothing to offer in return. We just are not good enough. I don’t blame the formation. I don’t blame the selection. I’ve criticised the way we play for the last four years and I don’t even blame that and I don’t think I blame the manager. He has inherited an absolute mess. We let go a complete forward line in January and haven’t replaced them. We were hopelessly weak in midfield and experience and that wasn’t addressed. I really don’t know how much say or involvement MP had in this but I suspect very, very little. Booing and jeering won’t get us out of this. We may grab a result at Wigan and it can all change………………………maybe. This is 100% correct and probably the most objective assessment of the current situation we are in. I watched Mansfield yesterday and saw a typical Clough team, a clear plan, with players knowing their job and doing it well. We are far from that, mostly because we don't have the personnel to do it. I think it is to early to say whether MP is the right man to do it as well. We may just limp over the line this season. It is going to be a big decision for Ben in the summer if we stay up. Does he think MP is still the man in the long term to take us forward? Whichever way he goes it is going to take a while to sort out the issues with the team. |
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Post by mikeyboy on Mar 24, 2024 8:19:52 GMT
We all came away from the game today very depressed. I was disappointed with the jeering and booing of players and management from the stands and terraces at the end. It helps nobody. If you’re not good enough, you’re not good enough and that is where we are. It’s a hopelessly imbalanced squad. We are top heavy in defenders (albeit good ones) and full backs who have been bought in and deployed as wingbacks. It’s no surprise that our defensive record is not too bad but it ends there. If you wanted to go to a more attacking 433 or 442, I just don’t think we have the personnel. If you take Joe Powell out of the lineup, who do you build a midfield around. We haven’t played with a midfield for 4 years, it’s no wonder we’re so weak there. There’s nobody who wants to get on the ball and dictate play, no creativity, nobody to take the game to the opposition, no goal scorer, no box-to-box energy. Quinn, Naylor, Duffy, Weir, Fraser, Edwards, Irvine…………….? Who do you play in your front 3. There’s not a goal scorer on the books, nobody who can hold the ball up, nobody to run the channels, nobody who is good in the air and deal with our aerial attacks, no wide players. Just no threat at all. How have we ended like this? Shambolic management over the last 3 years. The game seemed set for a nil nil draw for long periods. Port Vale second half suddenly seemed to think we were there for the taking and pounded us for the last 30 minutes. We had nothing to offer in return. We just are not good enough. I don’t blame the formation. I don’t blame the selection. I’ve criticised the way we play for the last four years and I don’t even blame that and I don’t think I blame the manager. He has inherited an absolute mess. We let go a complete forward line in January and haven’t replaced them. We were hopelessly weak in midfield and experience and that wasn’t addressed. I really don’t know how much say or involvement MP had in this but I suspect very, very little. Booing and jeering won’t get us out of this. We may grab a result at Wigan and it can all change………………………maybe. This is 100% correct and probably the most objective assessment of the current situation we are in. I watched Mansfield yesterday and saw a typical Clough team, a clear plan, with players knowing their job and doing it well. We are far from that, mostly because we don't have the personnel to do it. I think it is to early to say whether MP is the right man to do it as well. We may just limp over the line this season. It is going to be a big decision for Ben in the summer if we stay up. Does he think MP is still the man in the long term to take us forward? Whichever way he goes it is going to take a while to sort out the issues with the team. Yes he’d need to sign some strikers or recall the 3 we gave away in January. |
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Post by Fred Andrews on Mar 24, 2024 9:41:52 GMT
MP is digging his own grave with his arrogance and refusal to learn from mistakes.
Even at an early stage in his managerial career we are seeing huge errors of judgement that as someone else said, has turned us from a poor side into a terrible side.
He seems to either have no realisation of the position we are in, or doesn't have the footballing nouse to change his backward ideas and thinking that are seeing us put in some of the worst, most boring, tactically inept performances seen in my lifetime.
Nobody is saying that Martin has a great squad to work with, and Dino can take the blame for most of that, but he most definitely has the players available to put in better performances and pick up better results.
Yesterday we faced a Port Vale side in disarray, so what does Martin do? Sets us up negatively at HOME, when we should've been going all out at them. One of/if not our biggest games of the season, and it was a half arsed shambles. He's a Stoke City boyhood fan and instead of going in for the kill, he gives them a gentle kiss on the forehead and three points to boot.
The whole of the club, including Ben need to take responsibility not just for the shambles of the last few seasons & managerial appointments, but what happened in January... How can a club that is at risk of relegation, take such a gamble on removing experience from the front line for cheap kids, or in the case of Hudlin, an absolute donkey, who didn't even score regularly in non league. Are the finances that bad, or was it just penny pinching? Hoping that yet another ridiculous set of gambles with our League One status would pay off?
Nobody can say that Stockton, Walker, Gordon or Lubala (who got out while he could) set the world on fire while they were here, but I would put a lot of money on us being in a better place right now if they were all still here.
We have 7 games left. What could be some of our last games in League One for a considerable time, and possibly ever. If Martin is still taking the reigns, he & the squad need to take a long hard look at themselves, use some common sense, stop being so arrogant & set in their ways, and start actually trying to score, trying to win and damn well start trying to stay up. Anytime soon...
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