|
Post by otep on Aug 19, 2019 17:44:16 GMT
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2019 18:27:53 GMT
No I agree, I had not forgotten that either. The slight difference was that the situation arose at least halfway through the season. Bury have not kicked a ball yet and Bolton should not have.
|
|
|
Post by otep on Aug 19, 2019 19:17:09 GMT
Being a cynic my initial thought about the latest Bolton postponement was that it was possibly nothing to do with the welfare of their young players. It was that they wanted to play the game when they might get 3 points. However, I shot my cynicism down in flames when I realised they will probably get deducted 3 points or more for not playing the game.
The welfare of the young players is an argument that I mulled over. In not so distant times, players played games on consecutive days, had small squads and played on heavy pitches. These younger players will be full of energy and resilient. The counter argument would be put back to me that football in 2019 is more physical and that players these days are finely tuned athletes.
|
|
|
Post by bennyboy on Aug 19, 2019 21:31:11 GMT
Those young players will be biting at the bit to play games, it's just a cop out.
Anyway we have Bury and Bolton coming up, which one do you think we won't be playing, my money is firmly on Bury?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2019 21:54:17 GMT
I think Bury are really struggling I cannot see them surviving the weekend. Even if they do, they will have 4/5 games to make up plus a possible 25,000 point deduction. It is the next round of the League Cup next week, if they can't play the first round by the second round is due...
I think the whole thing makes a mockery of the League, Tranmere get a free three points and a +5 goal difference, Doncaster don't. By the time we play them in October, they will probably have signed half the Premiership cast offs.
And Bolton have still not been punished for not fulfilling last season's games.
League One this year is a nothing competition. The way I feel at the moment, I don't see the point in going anymore.
|
|
|
Post by jamoboy on Aug 20, 2019 6:06:31 GMT
My opinion of the Bolton situation will always bring me back to the outcome of the 2017/18 season and our relegation sealed by 2 late Bolton goals. Our club on such limited resources trying to compete against massive clubs and add to that clubs like Bolton who have operated heavily in debt ever since their Premier league days.
When our record signing gets injured on the eve of the season it would have been easy to go out and spend money we didn't have on a replacement but no we worked correctly within our means and battled on.
I feel sorry for the supporters of Bury and Bolton but for me the EFL should have made the decision early on that the punishment for the financial situation the clubs have got themselves in is expulsion from the league or at least immediate relegation. In effect Bolton survived that season and Bury promoted last season by financial cheating.
What this would do is make other clubs realise how severe the penalty is and make them get their house in order to avoid the punishment. As it stands the situation is farcical and when the next club goes in to administration will they be looking to postpone games now the precedent has been set.
As mentioned in earlier posts, there has been no mention of punishment for Bolton not fulfilling their fixtures last season. You would have expected something by now almost 4 months after the event. If its a points deduction you'd expect Bolton to be told before the season so they know where they start. If its a fine they've got no money to pay it but then will they fine a new owner for a previous owners problem. It wouldn't surprise me if we hear no more about it as it happened last season, didn't affect the outcome of the relegation places and it gets brushed under the carpet and never spoken of again.
|
|
|
Post by NobodyGood on Aug 20, 2019 7:02:11 GMT
I do wonder if fast financial reporting would help this situation. Most large companies can close their monthly accounts within 2 days of month end. It is likely that a certain set of questions on a teams financial performance, late on in the season, will identify whether or not they will meet FFP rules.
If they will, fine.
If they won't, punishment can be issued in the season effected, rather than after the event.
The last fixture of this season is 3 May. I would imagine most clubs could confirm by that date where their financial position is as at the end of April. Especially as most of these aren't marginal, they're blindingly obvious.
Maybe I'm just overly optimistic 😁
|
|
|
Post by otep on Aug 20, 2019 8:07:45 GMT
Excellent posts from Ian, Jamoboy and Nobody Good.
Yes, you sort of encapsulate what I have been thinking Nobody Good. I know nothing about accountancy but I have thought that there is surely time between seasons to make a judgement on the solvency of a club. However, in the case of Bury, I believe they have not presented accounts since 2017. Some might see that as a red card offence with instant dismissal.
The EFL has to make a judgement on whether to put a club out of its misery and when. I suppose they are a rabbit in the headlights, damned if they do and damned if they don't. They are opting to give them as much time as possible to survive and hoping that an extremely buyer will step in. That is either a credible stance or a cop out - depending on how you feel.
With regards Bury, I can't help but see the irony in the so called Class of 92 pumping money in to a new club in the locale.
|
|
|
Post by trevor1946 on Aug 20, 2019 11:17:19 GMT
The E=F=L are turning into a joke Bolton and Bury have paid the price for Administration 12 points deducted,Now because the clubs are insolvent and cannot fulfil their fixtures. They should be expelled from the Football league,and league 1 should compete with 22 teams with only two being relegated,And next season 4 being promoted from non-league. This should serve has a lesson that all clubs must be solvent. Bury and Bolton will go under or come back through the non leagues. If this was amateur football it would not be tolerated .Most clubs now have multi millionaires having a good old time and the fans embrace it changing managers at a whim, having a wiping boy called a head coach, high transfer fees massive salaries,But if the good times fail, then the club should be made to bite the bullet. The Football league is not for the few,but should maintain the standards laid down for ALL
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2019 16:46:39 GMT
|
|
|
Post by broomo on Aug 20, 2019 17:39:35 GMT
What a disgrace that an owner who is in it to make money for himself is allowed to ruin a club and put them on the verge of going out of existence in their current form. Dale is a joke, I don't think the guy before (stewart day) was any better. The EFL really need to look at themselves and bare a large brunt of the blame. I had an interesting job a couple of years ago where I came into contact with a lot of Bury's suppliers and even sponsors and it was clear then that they didn't trust the club to pay it's bills. Many local firms refusing to do any business with them at all as they'd been used by the club to provide even basic services and hadn't been paid. We weren't talking millions or even thousands, these suppliers didn't trust the club enough to put 300-500 quid at risk. This isn't something that has suddenly sprung out of nowhere, it's been going on for at least 5 years. There is no way either club should have been allowed to start the season. The EFL have really shown a shocking inability to manage things in the right way. I'm disappointed for the fans but both Bury and Bolton now need to be kicked out of the league, IRRESPECTIVE of any take over that may or may nor happen last minute. If either club is allowed to suddenly inject cash, sign players and take points off other clubs it's a travesty.
|
|
|
Post by jamoboy on Aug 20, 2019 18:17:47 GMT
Another couple of thoughts on the situation and how unfair it could be on the other clubs.
Clubs like ourselves who operate with a small squad due to finances rely on the gaps in mid season when they have no midweek games to get over any injury issues or fatigue. If Bury do go on to play this season then the clubs who they have to play their postponed matches are going to have to play 3 games a week in mid season and so their squad could suffer. Meanwhile as long as any Bury players left are keeping themselves fit they will be fresher when these games come around.
Also as Broomo touched on, if Bolton get taken over soon then they could in effect go shopping in the January window and cherry pick from their rivals. Imagine how we'd feel if they offer Scotty Fraser 3 or 4 times what we can pay him and his head gets turned and leaves for next to nothing. I would hope he would make a footballing decision but in football many footballers are swayed by money.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2019 19:05:37 GMT
I have a suspicion that this is a clearing of the decks. Feel for Parkinson and his assistant in many ways. To carry on whilst not being paid (probably) for so long was a commendable effort. www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49428721
|
|
|
Post by britty on Aug 21, 2019 20:57:59 GMT
If bury and/or Bolton fold would the club consider giving season ticket holders the opportunity to use the respective ticket for a home cup tie (assuming we have one after the event this season)?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2019 21:13:45 GMT
If bury and/or Bolton fold would the club consider giving season ticket holders the opportunity to use the respective ticket for a home cup tie (assuming we have one after the event this season)? That would be prohibitive in the extreme for a club like ours that will lose 10% of match day income if they are both excluded.
|
|
|
Post by britty on Aug 21, 2019 21:47:46 GMT
If bury and/or Bolton fold would the club consider giving season ticket holders the opportunity to use the respective ticket for a home cup tie (assuming we have one after the event this season)? That would be prohibitive in the extreme for a club like ours that will lose 10% of match day income if they are both excluded. Yes we would lose some match day income (c8.5%) however we will also lose some match day variable costs too (police, staff, merchandise etc) so the net impact will be a lot less than 8.5%.
|
|
|
Post by brewersinramland on Aug 22, 2019 8:09:17 GMT
As the media goes all 'community tragedy', hard-hearted me can't help but think that the reason a financially well-run club such as ours struggles to compete is in large part due to the many clubs who live way beyond their means. Of course that's a boring media story but it would be good if our local papers could make the point.
|
|
|
Post by insideleft on Aug 22, 2019 8:57:56 GMT
As the media goes all 'community tragedy', hard-hearted me can't help but think that the reason a financially well-run club such as ours struggles to compete is in large part due to the many clubs who live way beyond their means. Of course that's a boring media story but it would be good if our local papers could make the point.
Completely agree. Time the media local and national focussed on clubs doing things correctly.
|
|
kel
Youth Team
Posts: 176
|
Post by kel on Aug 22, 2019 11:12:13 GMT
Darlington my home town club where i learned to love football got a 'sugar daddy' called Reynolds, who built a wonderful stadium to seat 25000 based on Derby's new stadium when their home crowd average was two to four thousand. They left their town centre ground Feethams which was sold and is now a block of flats and maisonettes. For football matches they only opened one side of the new ground to accomodate both sets of supporters. Bills weren't paid and they lost the stadium. As a result they were dropped 7 leagues and had to play their matches at Bishop Auckland, eventually sharing a council ground at Bllackwell Meadows in Darlington where they now play in Vanarama North. I last saw them play at Tamworth a season ago. Reynolds ruined the club on his way to try and make a fortune with concerts and car boot sales. I might go to Alfreton for Darlos fixture if Albion aren't at home on the same day. I still have a soft spot for them but having live near Burton for the last 35 years i have ben a season ticket holder of more than ten years and enjoy the ups and not so much the downs of our well run club.
|
|
|
Post by bennyboy on Aug 22, 2019 13:45:24 GMT
An ex director of Bury was on TV today pleading for them to be saved. It was directed mainly to any prem club to give them a lifeline, some cash in other words to stave off winding up. I was thinking it was aimed at the two mega bucks teams not that far away. Pretty sad for the people involved in this club, the ones that have made it there club to support, the lifelong supporters, the ordinary folk that work there. It's D day tomorrow, I wonder if there is a saviour out there?
|
|