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Post by everard on Feb 1, 2019 21:46:06 GMT
Stop it. It's not here we go again. It's me expressing my views the way he expresses his. You and others are making me terrified to post. What have I said last post that is wrong? I'm being made to feel like a piece of shit as a person for defending the club. I know my football. I make no apologies for saying I know it better than a lot. Why don't you say here we go again when he starts the Turner thread? It feels less argumentative when Royston does it, although it's negative its not confrontational, you are. Imo Royston is equally argumentative and some would say that's what a forum is about... I find Royston more confrontational since, as you say, his comments are invariably negative, especially towards the manager, which inevitably alienates supporters who want the club to succeed... who believe the club is succeeding.... and progressing.. I found Steven Quinn's comments this week very interesting... He talks about the style of football being played (down to the gaffa) and how players from other teams keep telling him what good football we play… He is frustrated that we're not getting the results yet but he thinks we're not far off. .... .... these things take time Rome wasn't built in a day, no magic wands etc....hard work and good coaching.... And while I like winning.... I'm leaning with bobgauden... it is about more than just winning.... I enjoy much of the football we're playing and belive like Quinn the winning results will come...
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Post by annable on Feb 1, 2019 21:53:51 GMT
For me a real positive of this months dealings, both ins and outs, and contract extensions has shown a real element of planning for next season. In the last couple of years we have spent the summer months trying to bolster and strengthen a threadbare squad where it has taken until the end of August for us to be the finished article. It appears to me that NC is trying to plan for next season now which is something that hasn't happened in recent times.
Yes, there is still work to do this season and we want to finish it as strong as possible but we are bang in the middle of the table and are easily good enough to stay there. This season was always going to be transitional where we had to realign finances following relegation, something many teams have failed to do, and we look pretty stable at the moment.
We can argue about individual players like Ben Turner but we really do have the basis of a good squad that could, with a bit of tinkering here and there, make a strong challenge next season.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2019 21:54:48 GMT
It feels less argumentative when Royston does it, although it's negative its not confrontational, you are. Imo Royston is equally argumentative and some would say that's what a forum is about... I find Royston more confrontational since, as you say, his comments are invariably negative, especially towards the manager, which inevitably alienates supporters who want the club to succeed... who believe the club is succeeding.... and progressing.. I found Steven Quinn's comments this week very interesting... He talks about the style of football being played (down to the gaffa) and how players from other teams keep telling him what good football we play… He is frustrated that we're not getting the results yet but he thinks we're not far off. .... .... these things take time Rome wasn't built in a day, no magic wands etc....hard work and good coaching.... And while I like winning.... I'm leaning with bobgauden... it is about more than just winning.... I enjoy much of the football we're playing and belive like Quinn the winning results will come... And Quinn is here for next year too. I would be surprised if he didn't have an alternative offer.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2019 22:04:12 GMT
For me a real positive of this months dealings, both ins and outs, and contract extensions has shown a real element of planning for next season. In the last couple of years we have spent the summer months trying to bolster and strengthen a threadbare squad where it has taken until the end of August for us to be the finished article. It appears to me that NC is trying to plan for next season now which is something that hasn't happened in recent times. Yes, there is still work to do this season and we want to finish it as strong as possible but we are bang in the middle of the table and are easily good enough to stay there. This season was always going to be transitional where we had to realign finances following relegation, something many teams have failed to do, and we look pretty stable at the moment. We can argue about individual players like Ben Turner but we really do have the basis of a good squad that could, with a bit of tinkering here and there, make a strong challenge next season. You might be right, hope so anyway. However, it will be more than tinkering thats needed surely. Loan players will go back and I will be amazed if our club captain will be playing next season. He will be 34 rising 35 next season, 3 years older than Turner btw. In fact Turner is younger than Kyle and Brayford also
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2019 22:23:00 GMT
Does anyone know if we had to make a settlement payment to Turner or did he just ask to leave? I would imagine there was a settlement, there usually is. If that is the case it makes the decision even more bizarre. So we are having to pay for the privelage of losing one of our best players? Great business that.
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Post by annable on Feb 1, 2019 22:30:02 GMT
For me a real positive of this months dealings, both ins and outs, and contract extensions has shown a real element of planning for next season. In the last couple of years we have spent the summer months trying to bolster and strengthen a threadbare squad where it has taken until the end of August for us to be the finished article. It appears to me that NC is trying to plan for next season now which is something that hasn't happened in recent times. Yes, there is still work to do this season and we want to finish it as strong as possible but we are bang in the middle of the table and are easily good enough to stay there. This season was always going to be transitional where we had to realign finances following relegation, something many teams have failed to do, and we look pretty stable at the moment. We can argue about individual players like Ben Turner but we really do have the basis of a good squad that could, with a bit of tinkering here and there, make a strong challenge next season. You might be right, hope so anyway. However, it will be more than tinkering thats needed surely. Loan players will go back and I will be amazed if our club captain will be playing next season. He will be 34 rising 35 next season, 3 years older than Turner btw. In fact Turner is younger than Kyle and Brayford also The point I was trying to me is that the preparation has started earlier than it has in the past which has to be a good thing. When have we ever extended contracts mid season before? I can't remember many times. As for loan players, in the past and certainly in the Championship years, they were key parts of the squad and this year they are not. The key players, certainly in the midfield and forward positions, are all permanent and tied up for next season. Off the top of my head I can only think of three loan players we've got. Collins, Clarke and the new lad from WBA and wouldn't class any of them as key/ irreplaceable players at this stage. You are right of course that the centre of defence is the area where there are question marks. Will Kyle stay? Will Jake and JB be up to another season? All things for NC to decide on but my point is he will have less to think about pre season than he has in the past as everywhere else is fairly well sorted.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2019 22:31:26 GMT
I would imagine there was a settlement, there usually is. If that is the case it makes the decision even more bizarre. So we are having to pay for the privelage of losing one of our best players? Great business that. How much would we have paid him in wages to keep him until the end of the season? How much do we have to pay him to let him go? How much have we saved? What are we going to do with the money we save? All questions you and me can't answer. How can you be so critical of something you have no clue about? Maybe the money we're saving is going to pay Alex Bradley/s wages? Maybe we see him as a long term prospect?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2019 22:33:54 GMT
You might be right, hope so anyway. However, it will be more than tinkering thats needed surely. Loan players will go back and I will be amazed if our club captain will be playing next season. He will be 34 rising 35 next season, 3 years older than Turner btw. In fact Turner is younger than Kyle and Brayford also The point I was trying to me is that the preparation has started earlier than it has in the past which has to be a good thing. When have we ever extended contracts mid season before? I can't remember many times. As for loan players, in the past and certainly in the Championship years, they were key parts of the squad and this year they are not. The key players, certainly in the midfield and forward positions, are all permanent and tied up for next season. Off the top of my head I can only think of three loan players we've got. Collins, Clarke and the new lad from WBA and wouldn't class any of them as key/ irreplaceable players at this stage. You are right of course that the centre of defence is the area where there are question marks. Will Kyle stay? Will Jake and JB be up to another season? All things for NC to decide on but my point is he will have less to think about pre season than he has in the past as everywhere else is fairly well sorted. 100% agree. It's the first time in 3 seasons we're probably able to guarantee which league we're in next season. That side of it makes preparation much easier. We're building for next season, probably with a tiny tiny hope that we may still sneak the play offs.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2019 22:48:35 GMT
I would imagine there was a settlement, there usually is. If that is the case it makes the decision even more bizarre. So we are having to pay for the privelage of losing one of our best players? Great business that. Hypothetically let's say he was on £15k a month up until the end of June. There may well have been a loyalty payment as well. I understand those things feature. Let's say, just for making it easy a £25k loyalty payment. So £100k due by the end of the season. Or we suggest to him you can have £50k now because you are a great lad, we are sure you have a great deal to offer next season at a club that can offer you more than we can. Can we reach a deal on your contract? Let's say £50k now and as a free agent you can go and sort something out. You can even stay around us, get treatment and carry on training with us. All of that is very speculative. I also would suggest it may not be too wide of the mark. I also suggest his agent may well have primed him for somewhere else. Who knows? Derby need cover at CB.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2019 23:05:50 GMT
If that is the case it makes the decision even more bizarre. So we are having to pay for the privelage of losing one of our best players? Great business that. Hypothetically let's say he was on £15k a month up until the end of June. There may well have been a loyalty payment as well. I understand those things feature. Let's say, just for making it easy a £25k loyalty payment. So £100k due by the end of the season. Or we suggest to him you can have £50k now because you are a great lad, we are sure you have a great deal to offer next season at a club that can offer you more than we can. Can we reach a deal on your contract? Let's say £50k now and as a free agent you can go and sort something out. You can even stay around us, get treatment and carry on training with us. All of that is very speculative. I also would suggest it may not be too wide of the mark. I also suggest his agent may well have primed him for somewhere else. Who knows? Derby need cover at CB. Thats alright then for a minute i thought you said it may have cost us £50 grand to allow turner to leave?? Crazy
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Post by A38 on Feb 2, 2019 8:03:22 GMT
100% agree. It's the first time in 3 seasons we're probably able to guarantee which league we're in next season. That side of it makes preparation much easier. We're building for next season, probably with a tiny tiny hope that we may still sneak the play offs. The play-offs would be extraordinary from here. We’re 12 points off 6th place but only 6 points clear of 21st (and 22nd). I’m still nervous of being dragged in, but also hopeful that one good win today or in the next couple of games and we’ll be back cemented mid table ready to go again next year with a bunch of young guys with another few months’ experience under their belts. COYB.
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Post by A38 on Feb 2, 2019 8:07:14 GMT
Obviously I wish Ben the best for the rest of his Korea too (sorry if that’s already been done) 🙄
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Post by swaddy Dave on Feb 2, 2019 9:08:42 GMT
Ben was one of the best players BAFC have ever had but he is injured now and unfortunately will keep being injured, I personally was surprised by the announcement but understand the decision. Thanks Ben and all the best for the future.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2019 9:27:37 GMT
Ben was one of the best players BAFC have ever had but he is injured now and unfortunately will keep being injured, I personally was surprised by the announcement but understand the decision. Thanks Ben and all the best for the future. All 4 players who have played CB this season have had periods of injury it isnt just Turner. Buxton was out for weeks and even when on the bench we were being told he wasnt fully fit, Kyle missed about 6 weeks and Brayford has had problems. Some of it can be put down to the sheer volume of games. Why on earth for instance did we play Turner in all the checkstrade games? Surely that was a chance to blood youth players? When players reach their early thirties they are more susceptable to injury if pushed too hard particularly CB’s. Having said that Turner has still played 27games this season thats probably more than kyle and buxton. The question that should be asked is have we encouraged and paid off the right CB to leave early? Imo we certainly have not. It is patently obvious to me if a CB was to be allowed to leave Buxton should have been released. He is 34 in a month and has no long term future as a player. We will regret this decision.
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Post by NobodyGood on Feb 2, 2019 9:59:34 GMT
This season: 27 Turner 26 Mcfadzean 21 Buxton
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Post by annable on Feb 2, 2019 10:15:39 GMT
At the start of this season I think a lot of us had concerns about the defensive positions in terms of age, pace, ability to stay fit etc. I think that concern has proved right to some extent where not one single defender has been available for every game i.e they have all had injuries of varying degrees at some point in the season.
Our back line was always going to need an overhaul at some point and that process has started now and maybe Ben is unfortunate that at this moment in time he is out for 4-6 weeks so he was the obvious choice to go. With Kyle, Jake, Brayford and Damo out of contract in the summer I would be surprised if more than a couple of them were with us next season. The central defensive position is the one area of the pitch where a consistent relationship is required and we haven't had that this season where it has mainly been two of four dependant on who is available. No real consistent pairing.
The other thing that may have been in NC's decision to release Ben is that we have ended up with Damo still under contract and presumably going nowhere until the summer and he can slot in at centre back as well as his performance against Man City showed where he looked decent. Just think that may have been part of the thinking given that the release of Ben was announced at 10.55pm on transfer deadline day. Maybe if Damo had gone then we could have afforded to keep Ben until the end of the season.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2019 10:34:38 GMT
At the start of this season I think a lot of us had concerns about the defensive positions in terms of age, pace, ability to stay fit etc. I think that concern has proved right to some extent where not one single defender has been available for every game i.e they have all had injuries of varying degrees at some point in the season. Our back line was always going to need an overhaul at some point and that process has started now and maybe Ben is unfortunate that at this moment in time he is out for 4-6 weeks so he was the obvious choice to go. With Kyle, Jake, Brayford and Damo out of contract in the summer I would be surprised if more than a couple of them were with us next season. The central defensive position is the one area of the pitch where a consistent relationship is required and we haven't had that this season where it has mainly been two of four dependant on who is available. No real consistent pairing. The other thing that may have been in NC's decision to release Ben is that we have ended up with Damo still under contract and presumably going nowhere until the summer and he can slot in at centre back as well as his performance against Man City showed where he looked decent. Just think that may have been part of the thinking given that the release of Ben was announced at 10.55pm on transfer deadline day. Maybe if Damo had gone then we could have afforded to keep Ben until the end of the season. Maybe? the fact as you say that Turners departure wasnt announced until 5 to 11 may be due to him wanting to find another club before leaving the brewers and he probably has? In terms of a settled Cb partnership, you are again right its important to have a settled pairing and we had finally found that in our first year in the champ in Ben and Kyle. There was never any need to bring in Buxton (and Warnock). They had just been relegated with Wigan to Div 1. Surely, if as many say we need to look to the future, we should if anything have brought ina young loanee. Many of us believe if Kyle and ben had played a handful more games together last season we wouldnt have gone down. For those who question this, do me a favour and check the stats last season on kyle and ben playing together in the league. Games played W L D and seeing as the manager has been complaining how many clean sheets we are failing to achieve at this lower level, perhaps check how many they they acheived at a higher level. Then put it on here. I dont think any of us will need to say anymore after that.
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Post by insideleft on Feb 2, 2019 10:46:40 GMT
Royston – I’ve no problem with you stating your view. It’s completely opposite to mine but that’s not an issue. This is a forum and diverse opinion can make for good debate. Read through this thread and you will find many regular posters on here offering a constructive and realistic point of view and yes it tends to be in complete support of the decision and perhaps not yours. My point though is this you’ve made your point can’t you just leave it rather than dragging up the same issues on this thread and other threads time and time again. I/we all understand that you think the decision to let BT go is wrong. OK job done. Many a football forum has a rule re deliberately being provocative; you verge on it?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2019 11:02:35 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2019 11:06:14 GMT
All of our business on transfer deadline day was announced very late on. But just because Sky want to ratchet up hype by suggesting everything is done at the last minute, it doesn't mean it was.
Maybe all the deals were finalised at 10.55pm or maybe tgey were all done at 2.17pm and just announced later.
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